I work for a company who says they won't accept sick calls

[ElektraLOL]

I have an ongoing problem with a slipped disc in my back. It flairs up every now and then and I have a very physical job. So yesterday my back was hurting all day at work and today I'm in so much pain I'm going to the out of hours GP. I can't even drive. So I call in sick to work to be told they will not accept sick calls today because they are too busy. This is the first time I've ever called in sick in any job I've had. I physically will not be able to do the movements involved. I told them I'm self certifying and i will not be in.

IABU to think this is not usual workplace behaviour? I have heard from others that they will always try to bully ill people into work.

[Brilliantidiot]

@ArabellaDoreenFig

Exactly, increasingly employers are demanding their employees give the same level of input as they give - yet They're not willing to share the benefits of that input with a bonus or payrise or a staff benefit of some description. They are demanding total loyalty, yet showing none in return, rather the opposite. Staff in situations like this are often dropped like faulty equipment.
Unfortunately everyone is obsessed with making as much profit as possible and staff are just a piece of equipment these days.
I think it may have been Richard Branson that said
"You don't need to look after your clients, if you look after your staff, your staff will look after your clients"
If staff feel valued they'll go above and beyond without even realising it. I'm lucky, I'm valued where I am, and I bend over backwards to help my employer, but then they do the same for me.

[bananasandwicheseveryday]

I think it's quite common for certain jobs to have periods when sick leave is expected to be covered by medical evidence. Ds works in retail and any sickness during December has to be covered by a certificate, also, no annual leave can be booked for December and January. I work in a school and any sickness on the last day of term has to be covered by a medical certificate.
Hope your appointment went well and you got a certificate OP.

[justarandomtricycle]

What does "called in at the last minute sick" even imply as a concept?

Is there some expectation you would be given notice when someone is off sick or something?

YANBU OP. People are sometimes unwell. Not accepting it is akin to not accepting the weather.

[Prequelle]

banana that may be policy where you work but legally employers have to accept 7 days self certify. It's appalling that people are expected to waste doctor's very limited and highly demanded time to get notes for things like colds and other simple things that don't usually require a doctors visit. A lot of our doctors refuse to give notes unless it's for after the week of self cert

[ElektraLOL]

The doctor says my back is in spasms and has prescribed stronger painkillers. I have written an email to management (who are not even at work today themselves)

To the poster who says I shouldn't have accepted a counter offer and will end up with a worse job what do you mean? The reason I was leaving was to do with not being able to visit my daughter who lives in residential school. So they offered different hours.

[ElektraLOL]

Another therapist has been signed off massage completely due to injury and she was told if her massages can't be covered she'll still have to do them!

I like the way @Kingoftheroad blames me for working over my limit. They are difficult to deal with. Victim blaming much?

[pointythings]

jewel it's really very simple. Ours is a research team, so non-clinical. Because we are NHS, we have to use the Bradford scale; however, our team manager is supportive rather than disciplinarian in her approach. When it comes to stress-related illness, we all feel able to approach her before things become so bad that we need time off and we reallocate workloads. When it comes to physical illness, we are encouraged to stay home until we are fully recovered rather than being chased to come back as soon as possible - this means we have far fewer episodes of recurring illness close together because people don't come in when they are still ill, they don't spread their viruses to the rest of the team and so illness happens less often.

Carer leave is used sensibly for those of us who have families, and there is no pressure to use the minimum amount of compassionate leave permitted when someone suffers a bereavement - when my H died last year, our manager couldn't have been more supportive.

Home working is encouraged where possible and phased returns are used sensibly - we are trusted not to take the piss.

It isn't like that everywhere and I know that - in fact, those of our team members who previously worked on wards report very different situations.

However, it's a simple fact that it isn't necessary to treat your staff like dirt and push them for everything they've got. It's perfectly possible to di things differently and reap results.

[Inliverpool1]

ElektraLOL - you should have had the conversation about hours without the need to resign ... tbh I didn’t realise the job you were doing at the time so things are probably different in your sector

[Kingoftheroad]

brilliant idiot I’d be interested to hear your advice on devising a strategy like this, that doesn’t involve having to pay to have extra staff on standby and how on earth can we guard against loss of clients and business when we don’t have the staff to cover the shift due to last minute sickness.

Businesses these days are really struggling. I certainly pay very well (as my employees continually tell me) have great working conditions. Flexibility in hours, all meals and drinks provided and regular shares of profits.

I really resent the statement that I am part of the problem !

Someone else mentioned ‘I make the profits’ no not really. Most small businesses simply coast, stay afloat and get by. There is no margin in our profits for standby staff. Also, when someone is off sick, we have to pay for extra staff to cover (double wages) then make up for any potential losses.

Of course people take unwell and have to be off, I completely agree with this. It happens way to often and it can’t be sustained

[jewel1968]

Thanks pointy. I think I do a lot that your manager does but always keen to learn. My one simple philosophy (borrowed from R. Branson I think) is look after the people and they will deliver.

[Prequelle]

kingoftheroad I would be interested to hear how you think individuals should plan ahead for sudden sickness. We aren't psychic.

'It happens way too often and cant be sustained', then employ robots. Humans get unwell. It's a fact of life. It's almost like you think people do it on purpose. People don't generally like being off sick. They don't need to added guilt trip of employers being woe is me.

I get it's difficult. I've had to ring around to try to get extra staff because the ward has been dangerously understaffed, I've been the one with 14 acute unwell patients because someone has rang in, I get the frustration. But what are people supposed to do? It's not their fault that their illness affects your business so much that you're at risk of such a loss. A private business being so reliant on single individuals seems like bad business anyway tbh

[Passthecherrycoke]

kingoftheroad how hard is it to think of a strategy? rebook whomever you can with alternative therapists and phone the rest to cancel them and rebook at another date. Not rocket science!

[Brilliantidiot]

brilliant idiot I’d be interested to hear your advice on devising a strategy like this, that doesn’t involve having to pay to have extra staff on standby and how on earth can we guard against loss of clients and business when we don’t have the staff to cover the shift due to last minute sickness.

But that's the whole point, @Kingoftheroad, as I'm not running a business then I don't need to advise on devising these strategies! If I were to decide to run a business then I'd look into it and research it, or if indeed it's not possible, then take the hit when it happens because that risk should be squarely at the feet of the people running the business, not passed on to the people they employ!

Businesses these days are really struggling. I certainly pay very well (as my employees continually tell me) have great working conditions. Flexibility in hours, all meals and drinks provided and regular shares of profits.

This kind of environment is rare, I'm 40 and I've recently found my first job with these kinds of conditions - you know being treated like you're valued. I would be far more inclined to try and do something other than ring in in those circumstances - because I am valued and I'm given a share of the good times as well as being expected to shoulder some of the bad.

But none of that stops people being ill! It's a known risk of being human, and therefore if you employ humans you know you have that risk. You can't just turn round and say 'we don't accept illness' you need to work out a way of dealing with it - or accept the loss when it happens.

[Brigante9]

This is so mental! It makes me glad I’m in education. I had 3 months off when half of my calf was torn off, nobody said anything bar ‘Hope you get well soon, don’t even think about work’ which is how it should be.

[Hearthside]

OP i feel for you .I had a bad back recently and was off work 3mths but my employers were supportive . Back pain is miserable, i couldn't stand up without being in agony .They are being ridiculous and i agree bullying .Hope you get better soon.

[wigglesniggles]

This makes me so angry. This isn't how it works in decent workplaces. Wish your pain better OP

[ElektraLOL]

Thank you. It's stressful because you feel they are not supportive.

The problem is that people don't stand up for themselves. So what results is therapists throwing up in the sink halfway through a treatment (happened a couple of weeks ago!)

[Wineandpyjamas]

Oh FFS.

I work in the care sector where if you ring in sick there absolutely HAS to be cover or someone won’t get their meds etc.

I’ve rung in twice over the three years of working here and both times my manager has been more than sympathetic and accommodating. As long as you keep in touch with them and tell them when you expect to be back it’s not made out to be a huge problem. Either my management get relief staff in or if they can’t do that they come in themselves or cancel non essential support.

It’s up to the management to sort out sickness and maybe due to our company’s good attitude there are very few absences due to sickness.

Hope your back feels better soon OP!

[Tunnockswafer]

I’d be sad to have a treatment cancelled but I wouldn’t want to be given a treatment by anyone with a contagious illness either.

[TSSDNCOP]

As a business owner, if you are too tight, or too stupid to run a business model that collapses when a member of staff is sick as a consequence of over-extending their hours you have no choice but to step in and do the bloody job yourself.

I had this in retail where I’d run the shop for 3 days and the colleague I’d covered for was still sick day 4. That night I had plans. I explained that to the RM and made it her problem. She re-called everyone I’d already pleaded with, but they were all unable to help. She did it herself, but ultimately that’s what she’s paid to do and the occasions it had happened previously were zero.

[TSSDNCOP]

In the good old days you got 3x salary for working in Good Friday at Safeway. None of the part-time students were going to turn down that gig even if the sun was shining.

It’s a lot easier to go meh for NMW.

[ElektraLOL]

I agree TSS. At the moment I can't even drive and it's a 20 minute car journey anyway.

Yes, basically they are too tight to pay for a reserve to be scheduled in. They are also having problems due to the previous finance person doing some underhanded stuff and a meeting last week where staff were screamed at and told they'd be marched out of the building if anyone had any complaints. People have been unhappy because our staff perks have been cut (without any explanation and these are stated in our contracts)

[stucknoue]

Whilst it sounds bad to be told no sick leave, the problem is people lie (especially when the weather is good) and if clients are booked in they need someone to be there - can you imagine turning up to be told that the sessions you booked 6 weeks prior are cancelled?

There's two sides to stories, poor management is part of it and cheeky workers who are "ill" when they aren't

[TSSDNCOP]

stuck I agree, there will always be those that abuse the process. And those people should be dealt with in accordance with policy and contract and let go. It acts as a signal that management are on top of the problem. It also has the effect that people who need to can take genuine sick leave.

[Prequelle]

Whilst it sounds bad to be told no sick leave, the problem is people lie (especially when the weather is good) and if clients are booked in they need someone to be there - can you imagine turning up to be told that the sessions you booked 6 weeks prior are cancelled?

That isn't the sick employees problem. People taking the piss with sick leave isn't their fault or problem. Clients being booked in isn't their problem. They are sick and entitled like anyone else to rest when sick. What's the alternative? You cant punish the many for the few - that's bad management.

And yes I can imagine- I wouldn't be pissed off at the sick employee I would be pissed off the managers hadn't thought to ring me to let me know. Some of us care more about people's health than a massage.