to have assumed that a 100k salary in London would mean we would be more comfortable than we are?

[Baydreams]

I've been prompted to post this after reading the post about high earners and the two schools of thought that 100k either "isn't that much when you live in London" or "It's a lot compared to the average national salary". That post is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3561649-To-ask-those-who-have-high-earning-partners?

So, the backstory is that we started a family unexpectedly in our early twenties and abruptly adjusted to a household income of £26k, living in London. We stuck to a grocery bill of £40 per week for a family of three, and never spent a penny on small luxuries like coffees, clothes, haircuts, etc. Even so, our household income wasn't enough to cover our mortgage (£800 per month and cheaper than renting), and all the usual bills and outgoings. We slowly sunk into debt just to cover a pretty frugal standard of living. After 5 years, this debt was at £25, so essentially we needed to earn at least 30k to even out our costs.

During the last year of this, my partner landed a higher paying job, and our area of London had had a bit of a boom, meaning we could afford to move our family out of our flat to a 3 bed terrace house in the same area, taking some of the equity to zero our debt.

Over the next years, our household income grew to around £100k, give or take. (My partner has a commission based job so we never quite know what the exact figure is going to be, but it's usually just over or just under 100k).

We live in one of the last remaining affordable areas of London. Our house is valued at £450k. Mortgage repayment is approx £1300 per month. No other huge costs apart from running one family car. We have three children. On a household wage of approx £100k, we can now comfortably pay our mortgage, and live a much happier day to day lifestyle in that I don't feel guilty any more about booking in a haircut or buying a coffee.

We are so relieved to be out of the hole we were in financially, and I don't see £100k in our area of London as a struggle at all - there are many people earning less where we live.

But, I will confess to assuming that it would mean we could afford more than we actually can in reality. For instance, we have found that we aren't able to accrue any meaningful savings - maybe £150 a month which tends to get eaten up very quickly as an 'emergency costs' fund. And holidays abroad are beyond us. We tend to be able to save for one once every three years and the other years we do UK camping holidays.

Previously to earning £100k a year, I did assume that holidays and savings wouldn't be a problem. How do other people with similar earnings and outgoings make it work in terms of saving for luxuries like holidays etc? Do you find you can comfortably afford to save AND go on holiday? Do you substitute one for the other? Do you find it easy enough to live on 100k or do you find it a balancing act to cover everything you would like from your lifestyle?

[HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone]

Your DH has a cocaine habit.

If it was me in this situation I would rather this was the case or something similar e.g alcohol/cigarettes etc. At least then it would be being spent on something rather than disappearing into thin air which is what actually appears to be happening.

[Baydreams]

Your DH has a cocaine habit.

If it was me in this situation I would rather this was the case or something similar e.g alcohol/cigarettes etc. At least then it would be being spent on something rather than disappearing into thin air which is what actually appears to be happening.

Hah! I was thinking the same. At least if it was that, I'd know WHY.

Honestly, there's nothing sinister going on. By the sounds of the majority of replies on this thread, we just need to keep better track of our money. Which I appreciate is upsetting / irritating for people to hear who are experiencing real money problems. And I feel a bit mortified by that TBH. I think somewhere between having no money and lots of debt, to having a comfortable income, we've coasted. And I need to figure out the money hole.

[lisasimpsonssaxophone]

No judgment here OP, it sounds like you’re being realistic and you aren’t trying to plead poverty on 100k!

I really recommend some of the new app-based bank cards for budgeting. I use Monzo but there are lots of other too like Revolut or Starling. Using Monzo has really helped me be honest with myself about where my money goes and it’s so eye opening. They generated an annual spending report in January for all their users and when I saw how much I’d spent on Pret (and McDonalds ) it was a real eye opener!

[ScreamScreamIceCream]

OP go to moneysavingexpert.com and sort your budget out.

Also get your husband on-board especially if he's the competitive type.

I have got many of my family, friends and even my partner shopping at Lidl/Aldi. No-one buys their entire shop there but we all save money by buying a lot there.

Myself, family and friends knew from a young age that if we buy lunch at work then we can't expect to go out as much or have holidays, so we decide what we want more.

In regards to your husband's work expenses he needs one credit card he only uses for those travel expenses. There are some that don't charge foreign currency transaction charges so he needs to get one of these and only use it for work.

[Lavellan]

Sounds like a little bit of both. We earn half of what you earn 50k but our mortage is also half yours. We're not very careful with our purchases and could definitely be better. I think once we are paying for childcare we will end up in the same place you are now!

[SlappingJoffrey]

I was going to say I can see how there wouldn't be loads left at the end of the month with London housing costs plus childcare for three, regardless of how many other people with different circumstances and/or entitlement to top up benefits manage in the capital on lower salaries (there's usually someone on these threads telling us the London median income, with no information about how many people are paying childcare and what their housing costs are).

But £1600 per month on both combined isn't a massive amount really! Should leave some over for fripperies like coffees and posh supermarket range stuff. Even with you apparently on less than 100k after all. I'm inclined to think he's doing a really bad job claiming his expenses, as others have said.

[BarbaraofSevillle]

lisa

I have a Starling card, I mostly use it for overseas spending, and the thing I like the least is the way that it sends a notification 'you've just spent some money'. I know, I was there so I really need to figure out how to turn it off.

But surely you know that if you go to Pret/McDs a lot, it adds up to a lot, without the app spelling this out for you? Pret especially isn't cheap and it's not going to be a surprise that regular lunches there add up to a significant amount of money. What am I missing?

[Foxmuffin]

£100k isn’t much for London, but your mortgage is also pretty average.

[Quartz2208]

We pretty much earn the same as you and have an identical mortgage but probably live slightly further out. The difference is that we have 2 children and I have a tight handle on budgets and expenses - that is the first thing he spends it he expenses it - he should be putting them through after every trip. We have a halifax clarity card specifically for trips away and it is much easier to see and plan this way.

[ShatnersWigIsActuallyAMammoth]

I was obviously being facetious but there have been instances where a partner couldn't work out their OH's finances and drugs and gambling were the eventual causes.

But it does show you aren't keeping a proper eye on your finances, as there is definitely a money hole, which you've realised. And ought to now find.

[Baydreams]

@slappingJoffrey (great name)

Until recently, that £1600 per month was more like £2000, but we got a better mortgage deal at the beginning of the year. I gave the figures for our new budget once we'd reassessed it, so hopefully, this year we will find our savings capacity has increased.

@lisasimposonssaxophone I have heard good things about Monzo. Does it link up all your accounts?

@screamscreamicecream and everyone else who has said use one credit card for the expenses. He SHOULD do this, but he likes to use the one that gives us air miles per pound spent. Which is our main household card. Will see if there's a way to make the expense costs more separate, though.

[lisasimpsonssaxophone]

Barbara for me it’s not lunches, it’s all the mornings when I’ve been running late and dashed into the Pret next to work for a croissant instead of making breakfast at home. Seeing your Monzo report saying you’ve been to Pret 100 times this year (or whatever it was) and spent £300 makes you face up to the fact that you’re wasting money by not being organised.

We’ve had this conversation before though (I think, or at least I’ve had a similar one with someone on here) and not everyone works in the same way, which is fine. For me I really like the notifications, especially when I’m abroad as I can see how much it’s cost me in GBP right away. I find that useful but you don’t and that’s cool!

[lisasimpsonssaxophone]

I have heard good things about Monzo. Does it link up all your accounts?

No, it’s a bank account itself. I find the way it tracks and presents my spending so much more helpful than high street bank apps/websites. Since using it I no longer end up in an overdraft every month which is a huge deal for me!

[Oakmaiden]

But I'm there's probably a spreadsheet or app that would work it all out for me.

There is a system (and app) called You Need A Budget (YNAB) which I think could suit your situation really well - its main focus is on living on last month's wages, not this months (so you always have a month in hand) and having a plan for what your money is going to do, and planning ahead for contingencies. So if your MOT usually costs £300 a year then you earmark £25 a month for it, etc.

[stucknoue]

Our mortgage is £1000k a month and income (way above average for area) is half yours. £100k is a lot London or otherwise. You might not feel rich but most people in London have less.

[MollysLips]

I think you've just stumbled into that "Wahey!" feeling. We're on half your wage and my ex is being a twat about child maintenance and my DH pays almost £500 to his ex, so we're realllllllly struggling. But we can just about keep afloat if we watch every penny.

But on payday we both suffer from the WAHEY! feeling, and suddenly our weekly food shop goes from £50 to £90, with very little to show for that extra cash. It's like as soon as we forget to track every penny, we suddenly spend loads more.

You're expecting to be comfortable on £100k because it's 3x more than you used to need to stay afloat. But your D.C. are older now and more expensive, you're enjoying naice food and dinners out, and you e let go of the reins, a bit prematurely.

A few hours on MoneySavingExpert will see you right.

[TBDO]

Given that you don’t appear to spend much yourself, I think your DP is spending in ways you don’t realise. What does he do in his trips - is he spending out on expensive meals, clubs?

You need to track every penny and find out where it’s going. Get DP a credit card purely for spending on his trips and see how much he claims back vs what is spent.

Setting budgets is also good - You need a budget app is really good for this and will show where you’re spending. Don’t spend any money on a credit card (aside from the work related trips for your DH) as it’s way too easy to spend on and pay off a credit card every month as it hides all the little expenses.

[Maryann1975]

I always wonder when I read London threads about money. Does everything cost more in London. I know that housing is mega expensive in the capital, but do tesco/Aldi/Asda charge more for groceries than elsewhere in the country? And other shops, primark/next/b and q/home bargains? If you went in to a travel agents, would the holiday cost more because it has been booked in London? I guess to get a work man in to do odd jobs/home improvements costs more ‘down south’ than in other places, but I have no idea how much more.

[daisypond]

We are live in London and are on just over half the op’s salary and are not entitled to any benefits. We aim to live on my salary of about 33k and save dh’s salary of about 21 - gross salary. Three dc, one still school., two at university. We live in a two bed terrace but we saved hard to pay off the mortgage early. We are in a very expensive council tax borough though. My travel card is the biggest single expense. One of our children also went to private school from 11-16, which we paid for by working on the same principle of living off one salary. Though at that point, a couple of years ago, DH earned more than now - about 35K.

[Baydreams]

@TBDO the problem is, we want to use the credit card and pay off every month, as we want the air mile rewards.

Have just asked DH about putting expenses just one the one card and he says it won't work because he travels to countries that only except certain cards, so usually he has to have a rotation of 3 cards. It's complex, and the only way I can think to keep track of everything is to sit down once a month with him and go through every single account.

[BarbaraofSevillle]

Maryann

Not sure about groceries, but I think clothes are the same price - they wouldn't have separate price tags for London shops I don't think.

Public transport is often cheaper, as is foreign travel - many times there is a price from Gatwick, and then a regional supplement. Some London boroughs famously have compatetively cheap council tax, probably because there's more people who live there to share the bills amongst.

I've found eating out to be often quite cheap compared to other cities because there's more competition, but drinks can be expensive.

I think, apart from housing and maybe childcare and services like builders/plumbers, the cost of living is probably similar to other large UK cities. There's also a lot of free stuff to do, museums etc, which means that you can have days out without spending much.

[countdowntonap]

Our household income is only £20000 less than yours, and we live in a very cheap rural area. Whilst we live comfortably, we don’t have a luxurious lifestyle and our mortgage is only £700 including overpayments. I don’t think yabu.

[MummyMCM]

My god there are so many bitter and negative nelly’s on this site it actually becomes so depressing reading threads like this. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the OP doesn’t seem as though she started this thread to complain about having no money, she started it to ask others who are in a similar financial position to her what they spend their money on and if they feel like they have more leftover than she does at the end of the month. Some people have offered practical and useful advice, whereas others have absolutely roasted her for daring to suggest that perhaps she isn’t rolling around in diamonds and holidaying monthly in the Maldives, when according to you lot, she should be. Yes, she is in a much more comfortable financial position than many many others on here, she openly accepts that in her OP, but those of you who have sat here and given her a hard time over what she spends her money on should really sit back and think about whether those sorts of comments, if neither constructive or helpful in anyway, are necessary. Give the f*cking girl a break! She doesn’t need to be told what it takes to live on bugger all because quite clearly, she’s been there. She was just asking for practical advice.


Rant over.

[BarbaraofSevillle]

What do you do with all these air mile rewards OP? I have no experience of air miles so don't know how they work - my employer doesn't allow us to keep any air miles gained on business flights anyway.

Is the reward so great that it outweighs the fact that he doesn't seem to reclaim all these business expenses? Seems unlikely as they're only usually worth about 1-2% at most. Forgetting one flight or night in a hotel would more than wipe that out. Which countries 'don't accept certain cards' Aren't mastercard or visa both pretty much universally accepted?

[Numsitout]

I completely get where you're coming from OP.
For comparison (I've NC'ed for this), we earn just under 90k combined so have just under 5k coming in per month. We used to live on 1.8k so this is massive in comparison. But circumstances change and we have massive fixed costs too now:
Childcare 1.5k
Mortgage 2.1k
Bills and council tax £400
Commuting costs £500
So we are struggling at the end of the month. But I live in the knowledge that it'll get better once we no longer have to pay for childcare... though it would be a good few years yet!