What would you have done?

[HarrysOwl]

Slightly untraditional thread, as this was a situation that happened 20 years ago and I will update what actually happened; I wanted to ask opinions first, I hope that's not too annoying.

So you've been married 10 years, unhappily. Your DH is sexist, controlling, selfish, obsessed with money and generally quite unpleasant. He was all charm when you met, of course. You have two DCs, age 9 & 12.

You're depressed and trying to get financially independent so you start a new company and it's going well.

Do you:

1. Move out, leaving the kids with DH after verbally agreeing 50/50 custody.
   
2. Move out, taking the kids with you.
   
3. Insist DH moves out after agreeing 50/50 custody.

[ReanimatedSGB]

Abusive men are very good at convincing their victims that they will not be believed, that they are worthless human beings, that the abuse is all their fault and they could put a stop to it by submitting completely. Threads show up on MN fairly regularly from women feeling they have to stay with their abuser because otherwise they will be homeless, penniless and forbidden to see their DC because this is what the man has told them. Some women stay with an abuser because the abuser has threatened to hurt or even kill the DC if the woman is disobedient (and there are enough documented cases of men actually doing this). And some women leave their DC with a toxic man because the man has convinced them that he is a Good Dad, and that the family home will be happier without the woman in it.

[llangennith]

Your DM was clearly at her wits end and could only see one way out. Your DF went for full custody as soon as he could (spite) and as she had no means to fight it she lost. I'm sure not a day went by without your DM thinking about you, missing you, and wishing she had you with her.
You don't say why you didn't see her for years. Maybe she thought you'd settle better without her, maybe the pain of seeing you would have been too much. Let her tell you how she felt then. No-one can fully understand another person's fears and emotions unless they've experienced them too.
I hope you manage to work through this with your DM and get the relationship with her that you need and deserve.

[picklemepopcorn]

I don't think anyone would want to deny OP's emotions.

But OP can choose to think her mother abandoned her to an awful parent, so she could develop her business child free,
or
she can choose to think her mother tried hard to do the right thing but her plan didn't work and she was prevented from keeping her children by her ex.

[HarrysOwl]

@AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo

Your post made me well up. That's exactly how it feels.

[Yabbers]

You have no idea. My ex told me stuff and I believed him. 20 years of how useless I was how shit I was no friends. No self esteem. No nothing of me left and I believed him. And I had no access to money to go to a solicitor and coercive control wasn’t a thing and who was ever going to believe me anyway because I was shit on everyone’s shoes and worth nothing.
@Bluebadgenpip
That’s what I was getting at when I said half a story. Again, there are various options. The mum may have indeed been a risk to her child or, as in your case, there was coercive control and the mum wasn’t able to put up a fight.

I just don’t think it’s as straightforward as the OP has been told.

[HarrysOwl]

I’m not in any way denying the op her legitimate anger

I think you may be projecting a little, and I mean that kindly. I'm not angry, and there's no deep vat of bitterness on my side. When I see my DM we laugh, chat, have coffee. I wouldn't do those things with her if I had a chip the size of the Grand Canyon on my shoulder.

Sadly what happened back then wasn't the worst thing to happen to me, but with hindsight her leaving is the event that set everything in motion.

I have to live with those consequences, those scars; none of which, as a child, were my fault. That's just hard to get your head around.

[BluebadgenPIP]

I would suggest you go for counselling if you have t already. And I mean that kindly

[HarrysOwl]

I just don’t think it’s as straightforward as the OP has been told

You're quite right it wasn't as simple as my DF rocking up and saying "I'll have 'em" but it's hard to give too many outing details!

[AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo]

'But OP can choose to think her mother abandoned her to an awful parent, so she could develop her business child free,
or
she can choose to think her mother tried hard to do the right thing but her plan didn't work and she was prevented from keeping her children by her ex.'

I don't think anyone's suggesting she think the first of these - not even OP herself. I think it's OK, and important for the OP (who is, I repeat, the one we are dealing with here, so the one on whom we should be focused, surely?), to say that yes, her mother did fail her, somewhere along the line. This is in no way to say that this failing is damnable, or unforgivable, or indeed not on some level understandable - but these are things the OP can come to later, once she has been permitted to acknowledge that the failing happened, that it hurt her and damaged her. I think if OP is pushed prematurely to a position of forgiveness because it is more comfortable for us that way - for any one of myriad reasons - she is not going to find peace, because while her mother's victimisation will have been acknowledged, her own will remain unheard.

To reiterate, as i don't want to be cast as not understanding abuse or sympathising with victims: The mother may well have felt overwhelming fear that seemed to leave her no choice in the matter. She may well have suffered a great deal over the years. But however powerless she was, her child, the OP, was more powerless, had less agency, less say, and was left living with an abusive man as well as suffering the wound of abandonment (I mean this in its sense as to how the OP would have subjectively experienced it) by her mother. If the mother had come to us, we could have reassured her that she went through a terrifying and impossible situation and urged her gently to reach out to her daughter now. But it's the OP who is here, and it's our 'job' (if we choose to engage in this thread) to hear her and not make it our first business to vindicate her mother.

(Sorry for so much third person, OP)

[AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo]

(And as if it isn't obvious, I should probably add that I speak from a degree of (differently configured from this situation) experience, and am further down the path of working out its effects on me than the OP appears to be)

[HarrysOwl]

Thank you AndItStillSaid, you're putting it far more succinctly than I'm able to say.

I'm in therapy now and have been tackling issues I have as an adult, and the therapist has said that there needs to be a degree of acceptance regarding my past.

Essentially, I won't blame anyone but myself. If anything goes wrong, I still think it's my fault.

What happened to me, in my mind, is perfectly 'normal'. It was perfectly rational for a parent to leave, and for your remaining parent to hate you.

The world took a very frightening turn. With hindsight the household was toxic before she left, but once she was gone it was worse.

My posting on here was to gather opinions on what the 'normal' or rather, 'usual' thing to do would be, in my DM's shoes.

Coming to terms with the past means looking back as an adult, but that 9 year old is still there, wondering what she's done wrong.

Thanks so much for the supportive replies, they mean a great deal.

[chickensub]

Agree with everything @AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo

Sometimes parents do their best, and sometimes they fail their children. You have every sympathy from me op.
I had a mum, in a very complex situation, who some would say did her best and others would say failed me. Regardless, it was my childhood that was messed up from it, and your childhood is not something you should have to overcome.

[AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo]

My thoughts to you, OP.

In a way, there is no 'normal' or 'usual' in a situation of extremity such as this. Your mother did what she felt she could (it seems); but she also did fail you and did not protect you as you should have been protected. Those two things can be true at the same time, and one can say them not anti your mother, but pro you, if that makes sense. I hope your therapist is not pushing you to 'acceptance' as in forgiveness before you are ready - the kind of understanding I mean here, that still puts the child last after the adults. The idea that I might be forced to 'forgive' so that everything is nice again has always been a bit of a dread of mine.

[Whoops75]

Sorry OP
We posted at the same time I hadn’t read your story.

My father left and took us, we moved out of our home into my dead grandmothers house. I became the cook/cleaner and later chose to go to boarding school to get away from their mess.

I have no contact with my father but do see my mother, she was a lovely grandmother to my kids. She needs some care now but I’m finding it hard to step-up, I’m sure it’s all related

I admire you for trying to figure it all out, I’m too afraid to open that can of worms.

[HarrysOwl]

@chickensub that's exactly it - on one hand she did her best but on the other, I suffered the consequences of that decision. We shouldn't have to struggle with the legacy from our childhoods.

@AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo thank you so much for taking the time to post, just to be understood has helped a great deal. You're right, it's not a 'normal' so to guage a general opinion was maybe a bit futile! It's only just clicking now how not-normal by childhood was.

My therapist, I think, is pushing acceptance but I feel I need to understand first. It's so conflicting when the adult-me knows that life is tough, we all make mistakes, no one is perfect, but I can't help wondering what 'would have been' if I had been protected, and even one adult had put me first.

I never knew what love and care were until I met my (extremely wonderful) DH. I'm grateful for my life now, it's just that sometimes I trip up over the cracks.

@Whoops75 oh I refused to open the can for 20 years. Them's some big fat old worms...

[Back2Fronting]

My therapist, I think, is pushing acceptance but I feel I need to understand first. It's so conflicting when the adult-me knows that life is tough, we all make mistakes, no one is perfect, but I can't help wondering what 'would have been' if I had been protected, and even one adult had put me first.

This sounds terrible. Your therapist absolutely should NOT be pushing you towards anything. Their job is to help you work out your feelings at YOUR pace. Have you considered finding someone else who is a better match for you and your needs?

[AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo]

Back2Fronting is right. OP, your therapist should be centred on your interests and not what are essentially your mother's - there may be projection at play here. Can you express to him/her that you feel pushed?

[hellsbellsmelons]

My mum had to flee from her ExH and leave her DC behind.
(Not me, half siblings)
She had no other choice.
He literally would have killed her.
It took my sisters a long to accept it.
They had a great step-mum though and more half siblings, so it was a decent upbringing for them. I don't believe he was every violent with them. They've not mentioned it if he was.
We all have a great relationship now.

[Ellisandra]

I don’t think “acceptance” does mean in the mother’s interests, not the OP’s. It doesn’t mean ignoring or forgiving.

My sister and I had the same shit mother, we’re in our 40s.

I accept that it was all shit but I’ll never get recognition let an apology from mum, have been able to just move on - and don’t have contact with her. I’m mentally well.

My sister can’t let it go. Constantly wants to talk about it, affected still to the point of ESA and not working in years. Still in contact. Mentally really not well.

I’m not stronger than her, or cleverer at choosing a better path... I think I got lucky that my personality is different, my brain wired differently.

You can accept what has happened without it being “for” the mother.

I do agree that a therapist shouldn’t push you in a particular direction though.

[AndItStillSaidFourOfTwo]

But accepting what has happened without ever having had the opportunity to rage against it and grieve, I don't think can be good. Plus I do think, in a situation like this (and a lot of PPs are testament to this), 'acceptance' has the real potential to be conflated with forgiveness of the mother's actions, before the OP is ready.

[Ellisandra]

I suppose it’s how you see acceptance!
To me, the process of accepting includes doing that raging and grieving - and doesn’t include forgiveness!

Sadly for my sister, she’s been doing raging and forgiving (trying to) for 30 years

[FenellaMaxwell]

Personally, I would pick option 2 - I couldn't leave my son behind. But currently I am relatively happily married, and of robust mental health, and have my mum nearby and a well paid job. I can see how things could be different, and I don't think it's your mum's fault your DF treated her so badly she felt she had to escape any way she could.

[Scorpvenus1]

I agree number 3 deffo