Scared about online radicalisation of men in far right and Islam

[Unfinishedkitchen]

I’m becoming increasingly worried about the radicalisation of young men to the far right and Islam.

On the far right side, there seem to be lots of sights aimed at radicalising young white men e.g 4 Chan, 8 Chan etc. I believe many are recruited through online gaming communities where ‘ironic’ hate speech is used to normalise hate and lure them in.

There are many vulnerable men out there who are prime targets for recruitment to the far right agenda. How long will it be before one of them straps on a suicide vest?

They are no different from the Muslim boys who are being radicalised. They believe it’s them against the world too.

I don’t have a son but if I did, I’d be worried and would be having serious talks about online groups and the fact some of them have a nefarious agenda. I’d also warn him off anyone who tried to normalise any hate speech around him.

There seems to be an increasing number of angry young men. They find each other online and encourage each other into violence.

But you wouldn’t have to worry about right wing extremists if men could control themselves would you?

It’s fundenetally missing the point to argue that a specific viewpoint is causing the shooting, bombing,stabbing etc.
It’s thinking that violence is the answer.

There are plenty of horribly racist women. But they aren’t the ones going into mosques with guns or running people over or hanging black men from trees are they.

I've long argued for provision of what used to be 'male' hobbies, fishing, mechanics, guitar lessons etc, as well as sports. I think it's the lack of connection with the environment and the people who live around you.

This isn't going to be a popular view, but I think it's linked to the increase in Stabbings and Acid attacks.

There were projects trying to stop, especially young Minority Young Men, from feeling isolated and let down, likewise we had an issue in areas were there was no way out of poverty, for white young men. They went with Austerity and benefit changes.

I've become involved in a Charity that is for Parents who have no indefinite leave to remain and no recourse to public funds. Because of the change in criteria (now linked to benefits) of the free Nursery place, the children don't mix until school. People from certain Countries don't mix freely with others, because of suspicion, which at home, saves their life. But they are disconnected from the Society that they've chosen to bring their children up in.

Likewise people who might be embarrassed about their home, have no money to do things, can be in similar situations.

It's easy to sit your children in front of a television, then go on to gaming.

Coupled with the lifestyle that is sold of, money, sex, cars etc. Bitterness, resentment and blaming the wrong people, builds up. Male entitlement is an issue, but we all feed into that.

I'd like more Sociology taught in Schools. A better understanding of what makes each other 'tick' would help. A look at lifestyles outside our own.

Hollyoaks is covering recruitment into a Far Right group at the moment. It's a shit Soap, in lots of ways, but it gets social issues right, oddly.

Austerity has made extremist groups, recruitment, easier. If Drugs and Crime don't get the full % of lost Young Men, then they will swoop in and get the rest.

I will push back, yes kids can have dreams, but if all they have and believe in is unreaslitic dreams that’s a huge risk. It is not a parents job to protect those dreams at all costs despite the songs and film that tell you otherwise , It’s a parents job to ensure that they grow up with the skills and dreams that will lead towards a happy adult. Take your budding footballer to lessons and support all the matches but not to the extent that he ignores her studies or fails to recognise if their strengths lie elsewhere. Recognise that most of their dreams are based on what they see on tv/internet, which is designed to be addictive, create them a better dream. Ensure they understand the world well enough to be able to find their place.

"But wouldn’t have to worry about right wing extremists if men could control themselves would you?"

In the past we've always had Wars etc that they could get involved in. National Service as well. Perhaps some Men need that challenge.

It was said that football hooliganism took over when the likes of National Service and the Cadets/Boys Brigade etc petered out.

It isn't the Sport that a lot of Men go for, it's the tribalism behind it. It seems to be a need amd we should cater, safely for that need

I can remember the Lads needing to get involved in rival school fights. It was just fist fights. Men would have 'straighteners' in the form of fist fights outside pubs. Now they stab each other to death.

We need to find out what changed, not just dismiss it as "it shouldn't happen".

"It's a parents job to ensure that they grow up with the skills and dreams that will lead towards a happy adult"

If the Parents struggle to negotiate and find a place in the Society themselves, then they aren't going to be able to do that.

There's areas of the Country that don't have employment opportunities. Or the children aren't bright enough to do higher education. They will now, thanks to Austerity, be subject to poverty.

In short, they are getting fucked over. So they blame the wrong people.

Does this suit the Government? Possibly.

I think current society tells young people they need to have it all. Men need to be good looking, buff, have money, awesome cars then they will get the hottest girls. Some get very angry if they don’t get any of this and lash out or join groups who tell them others have stopped them getting what they’re entitled to.

Someone upthread asked which online games I was referring to. There are no games in particular but I have friends who play online a lot and you can engage in chat with other players. Some engage in what may seem like banter. Some may be extremists who make derogatory comments about women or minorities dressed up as banter. You can join chatbgroups who’s interests seem to be about the game but can then get sucked into nefarious subgroups with your new online ‘friends’.

It isn't the Sport that a lot of Men go for, it's the tribalism behind it. It seems to be a need amd we should cater, safely for that need

I’m sure a vaguely remember a Grayson Perry documentary where he when to Skelmersdale (quite a rough town).
He met a lot of “left behind” young men.

Some were in a cage fighting club (I’m probably misremembering the details). You would think those men would be the most troubled but they weren’t. It was as if the club gave them an outlet for their frustrations - it was almost like counselling for them.

I don’t know what you do about male volence, I think men are (on average) more violent than women. I doubt you can completely suppress that. It’s best to have an outlet for it for the men who need it.

Strongly agree that the interaction between male violence in general and terrorist violence is important (perpetrators of attacks very often turn out to have a history of domestic violence which was overlooked because it was "just" violence against a female partner).

However, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the way that the general reaction on MN to Christchurch has been to rush to classify it as a manifestation of "male violence" and leave it at that. Feels like we're almost trying to erase the whole dimension of racism and anti-Muslim prejudice. Far-right violence is (as far as I'm aware) always perpetrated by men and that's their responsibility, but we're also swimming in a shitty soup of a climate where "foreigners" and Muslims in particular are widely stigmatised and smeared, and that creates fertile ground for radicalisation (yeah, I know - mixed metaphors). Both men and women are responsible for the latter, whether it's the women down our local pub spreading rumours that "the Muslims" have banned Easter this year or the repellent Katie Hopkins trying to incite violence against refugees on Bute by blaming them for the death of that little girl.

Birdshottafly So you think men are inherently violent ( or at least put together in a society/group)?

I agree that’s what we need to work on.Plenty of non violent men in the world. They are the ones that need to reign in the dicks. We don’t need a war just for men to show how brave and heroic than can be.

(And if refugees had been attacked because of the lies spread by Katie Hopkins, then she absolutely would have had some responsibility for that, even if the guy who pulled the trigger or carried the knife had primary responsibility).

Young men have always been disposable and treated as such by societies. Their lives are not particularly valued and there are always plenty of people happy to use them for their own ends and throw them away when theyve served their purpose.

The only two violent women I have heard of are .

Joanna Dennehy who stabbed men
and
Brenda Ann Spencer, female shooter of a school in Cleveland Ohio She was 16 . The song I don't like Mondays was based on her.

I do get your point OP ,its always the Men (on the whole)

I agree. There are scores of young men that feel disenfranchised from society which to be crude are ripe for the picking. I've spend a bit of time on online gaming communities for a piece of research I was doing and it is truly vile the manner in which they communicate and the sordid ways in which they see themselves as detached from society. These groups give them a purpose and a feeling of belonging. It's a very insidious process. I watched a bit of Jordan Peterson on Youtube and was inundated with ads for videos on why women are bad and feminists are generally evil. And that's not even the worst of it.

A problem as old as the hills. However most young men whether muslim, atheist, christian and of all colours are not violent so there is certainly much to be hopeful over. I have 3 adult sons. They are not like this.

Men can hold any views they like but when they break the law that is not okay whether that's stabbing another teenage boy in London, fighting for Daesh and all the rest.

I think it is dangerous to alienate a group from society. For a while, the group that perform most badly in public exams has been poor, white boys. it is made clear to them that they have no function and cannot succeed. They are pushed out and it makes them angry. It is harder for them to get to university and find their place and role.They are labelled failures early on.
We can ignore this group or find ways to give them purpose. It is dangerous to name call and blame a group for everything that is wrong in society. There needs to be help to try and include disenfranchised, demoralised young men.

Gregory that's a really good point re targeting the women in their lives and now mobilising.

Yes Mrs muddle that's also very true.

And no it's not helping when Isis and Islamic extremists have been Very active over past few years running people down, slitting throats, creating the caliphate.

It's created a focus and an enemy.
I had hoped now caliphate squashed Etc that all these attacks would fade away...

vladimir can you tell me more about that as I really don’t know anything about that community at all and since I don’t enjoy gaming don’t know that much about that.

Just worked on a tech project for my company though (am used to working in an industry that although the usual gender pay gap shit exists, is reasonably female friendly). Was really shocked and scared by one or two individuals who seemed to manifest a deep hatred of women. It was freaky.

Brenda Spencer shot at the primary school across the road from her house in San Diego. Not Ohio. She has since testified about ongoing abuse and neglect she experienced as a teenager prior to the shooting. She'll stay in prison for life. I don't like Mondays was effectively banned from radio broadcast in SD. Made the hairs stand up on my neck first time I heard it.

San Bernardino shooter was female, and by some accounts, she radicalised her husband.

Another San Diegan implicated in Youtube shooting.

Women tend to prefer poison.

Typical story of petty revenge plot that killed innocents and could have killed hundreds.

OhYouBadBadKitten, dunno if I can answer your question. DS had a dearth of friends, was my first thought, social isolation. He did get into playing 1st-person-shooter games with Eastern Europeans, that's true. But that just seemed to lead to very good accent impressions, at the time.

Similar in Ed Hussain's book. EH talked about the process that led to him being radicalised. Being socially isolated & not belonging, he attributed to core of it.

Not about country or religion or race. It’s being male, Although I can’t decide if it’s the Y chromosome or environment,

I would propose that it's a confluence of two factors: men having a greater variability in cognitive function (which results in a higher rate of mental illness) and the extremely conservative nature of belief systems which underlie these atrocities (which almost invariably feature women in a subservient role).

This is what happens when boys and men sit in front of computers all day instead of going and kicking a football around or going to work or just generally not being glued to the Xbox/laptop/porn sites.

It's odd that you say that, because the Christchurch shooter was, by all accounts, physically active and well traveled (including, strangely, repeated trips to Islamic majority countries).

There is so much ignorance, hate and self-righteousness on this thread. Violence has been proven (very recently) not to be linked to gaming. Women play XBox/laptop/watch porn. And where have you all had this experience of extremism? Cos trust me, if you had met/lived alongside extremists you wouldn’t be spouting the bollocks you are.

BellaVista is right. The hatred, intolerance and bigotry shown on this thread is not only bloody hypocritical but also depressing.

@BertrandRussell, I completely agree with you. Women losing their jobs as a result of guilt by association / wrong place, wrong time, is a real thing. Thank goodness we were improving matters in that regard but I really worry about what will happen post-Brexit.