To refused medication for DD

[Imustbemad00]

I’m just looking for advice of people with experience of similar situations and how things turned out. Without being rude, it’s a difficult time so please keep unwanted opinions to yourself.

My DD is suffering with mental health issues. She was referred to CAMHS over a year ago but due to the school cocking up the referral, she wasn’t actually on a waiting list. Finally got seen by CAMHS in a hospital in the summer, and it’s taken until now to actually start treatment.

She is severely depressed, anxious and has self harmed.
She was on a waitin list for cbt as they felt this was best. I called recently to see how long it would be and was told there was still a wait but there was another treatment option that was available ASAP.
I told them they needed to make the decision, as professionals, as to what treatment best meets her needs.

So she started the new treatment, which is more based around relationships and depression and I’m not 100% convinced it’s the best treatment.

On the first session, the (very senior) psychologist mentioned the possibility of medication.

Third session and the lady has said they want a doctor present next session to maybe start medication. This has been discussed with my daughter with no mention to me. I’m awaiting a phone call.

My issue is, shouldn’t they try all possible treatment for a period long enough for it to have an effect, before offering medication to a young girl.

Of course, I just want her to feel better, any which way, but I’m very apprehensive about medication. I admit I don’t know a lot about it but it scares me.

Why have we waited this long, to feel like we are just being fobbed off with medication on the third session.

[BertrandRussell]

“Nobody wants their daughter on anti depressants. ”
I do. Because without them she is miserable, doesn’t enjoy anything, struggles with the basic business of living and has been suicidal. With them she is herself again. So yes, I do want her on anti depressants.

[SexNotJenga]

They want to offer meds because one effect of depression is that it makes people cognitively impaired, or have 'brain fog'. They find it hard to think, especially to consider different points of view, and very hard to be motivated. All these things mean that it can be difficult for a very depressed person to benefit much from therapy - they're simply too ill to do what therapy is asking them to do. Like trying to do physiotherapy with an unsplinted broken leg. The meds give the person enough of a boost to be able to access therapy.

Re: the 12 weeks. It sounds like your dd is accessing IPT-A, which is a very structured CBT-based programme. What will likely happen is this: the last few sessions will focus on relapse prevention and keeping going positive changes, and planning how the young person can make more changes themselves.

It is likely that your dd will be better by the end of the 12 weeks, but not completely cured. This is normal. Recovery from severe depression takes time. The therapy aims to give your dd the skills and understanding to be her own therapist after the treatment has ended. For this reason it is normal to discharge at the end of the scheduled course of treatment. Young people are always welcome to return if things relapse in the future.

If they are offering your dd medication, then as pp said she is already under the care of a psychiatrist. She's in safe hands. Feel free to ring them up and ask to have a conversation about your concerns. They're very likely to be able to put your mind at rest.

[FanFckingTastic]

My son has severe ADHD and anxiety. We have tried several different treatments, with limited success. Medication - although not perfect - has been a game changer for him. When your child has a biological dysfunction (in my boy's case a physical deficiency of brain chemistry) it sometimes calls for a chemical correction. There is still a stigma around medication for mental issues and this is really not helpful and something that we should challenge. We would not agonize over giving our children insulin for example if their body was not producing enough.

[macblank]

I've never had any meds for my MH. I'm not sure they'd help either.

I'm too clever to be deceived by CBT. By that I mean... I know most of the mombojumbo they tell you, about PMA, but that doesn't work for me. I know it's just talk!

Having said that, I do believe in a bit of oomph! There are days, nay weeks, I could go just moping and being all sorrowful, but I refuse to let myself... Always have.

Yes I gone through times when I couldn't care if i lived or die, and if I did die, no one would give a shit. I still get them thoughts in top of my MH, but I try to shrug them off.

I've never been offered anything, no counseling for the abuse I suffered as a kid, both physically n emotionally and mentally. I was ADHD n depraxic (so e have said I still am, as never had help or treatment).

I can't get anyone to help. My darling fiancée tries, and often spots me starting.to go.on one, and can help bring me down, before I kick off. Apart from her, I don't really care what anyone thinks.

I do think tho, that sometimes (not it seems in the cases above) depression is too often diagnosed in kids. It's sometimes just an easy answer, and that takes away from the genuine sufferers, which makes hardwork for us and the sweeping statement they make... Well everyone gets down niw n again, just pick yourself up .... GGGRRR I hate that expression.

[pigglywig]

To help you see it from a new point of view, imagine if she had a long term physical condition, for which medication made it better and allowed her to live her best life. Eg, diabetes or chronic pain. You'd jump at the meds.

This is the same. Some people's brains don't make the chemicals they should, or don't work the same way other's do, and if there are meds out there that can fix this imbalance then grab them. I'd say explore other options too, therapy is extremely useful. But if she has to take meds and her life is better than when she wasn't on the meds, for me that's a positive thing. People have to stop seeing anti-ds as something you need to come off eventually if it's helping, because some people do manage to get through difficult episodes and come off them afterwards, but others need them long term and that's fine! Nobody decides to stop insulin after a few years do they? If it works and it helps, stick at it. There's no stigma these days and it sounds like you've explored other options first and haven't jumped straight down the drug route.

[M3lon]

OP the problem with depression is that it is a symptom not an illness.

Imagine you went to the doctors with a sore throat and they treated you without finding out why your throat was sore...just gave you a mix of treatments appropriate for everything from a viral infection to a bacterial infection to throat cancer! You would think it was mad! But that is the reality of depression treatment.

It could be that your DD has the infamous genetic imbalance of chemicals and may end up on medication for her whole life...but its more likely that she has developed coping strategies for her unhappiness that are actually making her more anxious, withdrawn and even more miserable.

The recommended approach to depression is to throw both drugs and talking therapy at it in the hopes something sticks... rather than to try and understand the underlying issues before treatment. This is shit, but not something you can really do anything about.

As you also presumably do not know what the underlying cause is in your DD's case, it makes sense to follow this procedure and try both.

With any luck the talking therapies will be successful in providing your DD with more healthy and robust strategies for managing anxiety and low mood and she will make a full recovery to a position of not requiring drugs....but its best to try the drugs in case they help.

[M3lon]

macblank you need some actual CBT...which believe me is not anything to do with PMA.

IT is about examining your behavioural responses to your emotional state, identifying those that actual exacerbate the situation, even though they feel good in the moment, and changing them for strategies that improve your emotional state....see...no PMA in sight! (Also no 'me time' bollocks).

[Hamandcrispsandwich]

I can see this from both sides.

My sister was under CAMHS for a really short time (think she had 3 appointments) and medication was suggested. For her depression and Anxiety, they suggested anti-depressants and an anti-histamine for the anxiety. Both parents were very cautious, especially regarding the anti-histamine. They talked it through repeatedly and came to the decision that it might be ideal. By the time they'd decided, CAMHS had discharged her, she can't get back on the waiting list as it is so full and she can't access the medication. However, she is currently stable and is ok.

However, I think I need anti depressants and I can't get them. I live an incredibly miserable life that I wouldn't wish on anybody. It really is so, so sad to live the way I do for years. I do wonder if i'll ever get relief from how I feel and I would do anything for someone to take this away. I have never been given anything for my mental health.

For that reason, I would go for the medication.
My friend was in a mental health unit as an inpatient as a teen and they don't offer therapy for the first 6 weeks of your admission as they don't feel it is beneficial until the medication has started to work.

[NotAnEMERGENCY]

I think the idea that anti-depressants (ADs) make you feel emotionally numb and are addictive is a common misconception in current society. It might have been true years ago, but research on drugs has progressed so much in recent years.

There are now many different ADs. They work differently and have different side effects. They can all be taken in different doses.

All people with depression are different too. One specific AD will work for one person but it might not help another person. This other person might benefit more from a different AD, or from talking therapy alone, or from a combination of both.

I have been on ADs pretty much the whole of my adult life (20+ years). I have never felt numb with them. As a PP also said, I only feel numb when I am in a depressive episode. (I think it's a coping mechanism for me, to reduce the amount of 'pain' I feel.) When on ADs, I can feel highs and lows (joy and sadness), in proportion to the events happening around me (i.e. I feel like a 'normal' person).

I am likely to be taking ADs for the rest of my life. I don't have a problem with this. They make me function normally and research studies have found no evidence for any sort of harm from long-term use. The reason I have depression is not because there is something wrong with my life; it is because there is something wrong with my brain and the neurotransmitters in my body. I think talking therapy can work better for people with depression that arises in part from life events (bereavement, abuse, trauma, stress...)

I have also had various periods of counselling, sometimes on the NHS and sometimes privately because the NHS was not willing/able to foot the bill. (They have severe financial constraints and if you are not suicidal you are not a priority for them.) When I feel it is necessary, I choose to pay for the counselling because I feel it helps me (and I am lucky enough to be able to afford it financially on an occasional basis) but, from a long-term perspective, the ADs are of much more obvious benefit to my mental health.

I very much hope your DD gets whatever treatment she needs. Depression is hell.

[Topseyt]

I have a 16 year old DD who has been diagnosed with severe depression and anorexia nervosa. I do know what you are going through here. DD's mental health has fluctuated throughout her teenage years. Clinical depression in your child is scary. Very scary.

My understanding is that when the depression is very acute the medication is intended to take the edge off it sufficiently to help the patient engage better with the talking therapies and CBT.

The medication can take a few weeks to kick in properly, and to get to the right dose, but when that is achieved it can be really helpful. I am glad you are reconsidering your original (understandable) reservations.

My DD was prescribed fluoxetine just a couple of weeks before Christmas. It took a little while to kick in as I said, but in the last couple of weeks she said to me "Mum, you've no idea how great it is to feel as though I finally have a normally functioning brain again."

For me that means that the medication has been a game changer for her. Before she was medicated we were despairing, scared that she would need to be withdrawn from school and admitted to a hospital unit (or even worse).

I know what you are going through. It is worrying and isolating. If you go over to the Children's Mental Health section of this site you will see that we have an ongoing support thread where a group of us parents do post. Why not join us?

[Zwischenwasser]

that I view them as addictive, hard to get off, altering moods to the point of making you emotionally numb

Nope, nope and nope.

Literally life saving in my case.

Not addictive, quite easy to stop taking them. There came a point when I absolutely knew i no longer needed them. You have to ramp down, to come off them because a sudden stop can cause mildly unpleasant side effects. I did go a little too cold turkey because I was bored of taking them, and ended up with a few dizzy spells and things.

Not mood altering, in all honestly for me i just woke up one morning after taking them for a few weeks and felt like me I hadn’t realised how ‚‘not me‘ I’d become.

And not emotionally numb. The depression did that to me. Once I’d got ‚‘me‘ back I actually had feelings again.

[Aridane]

Your attitude to ADs is blinkered and u should not make your issues with ADs a barrier to your daughter's treatment

[longtompot]

My yd was on anti depressants and her CAHMS person explained why they use them. When people are depressed their positive brain signals stop getting through and their negative ones start to take over. Taking the pills helps the brain create new positive pathways and in turn help them see things in a more positive light. Its not forever, the first one she tries might not work, but the change when it does work is amazing. If it wasn't for them, plus other mental health help, she would not be here now.

[Nat6999]

My son is 15 has ASD & horrific anxiety & depression & nobody will prescribe any drugs to help him. I've begged our GP & his neurodisability consultant & neither will give him anything, he is on a waiting list for psychology, has been waiting well over a year, I have enquired & been told that he will be waiting at least another 2 years. During that time he will be sitting his GCSE'S & his anxiety will probably be higher than it has ever been & he could potentially fail them due to anxiety & depression plus his ASD but nobody will take on responsibility & prescribe for him. CAMHS have refused to take him on their books because he is under the neurodisability team.

[lemonsorbetinthesun]

Research shows the best outcomes for low mood and anxiety is a combination of an SSRI (an antidepressant) and CBT rather than either alone.

[Bunchofparsley]

Hi there.
We've had school stuff, CAMHS, self harm, depression, running away, anxiety and suicidal ideation ourselves with DD2, now 16.
Please, for God's sake, let her take the meds. They saved my daughter's life.
They didn't flatten her out, or make her 'numb' .Years of depression did that. The meds just lifted a corner of the darkness over her tiniest bit so she could start to crawl out.
She continued with talking therapy for months, simultaneously. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
If she hadn't taken them I don't believe she could have ever moved on. I don't actually believe she would still be here.

[user1471426142]

You need to understand the benefits (and also side effects) of the medication the drs are proposing but please don’t let a worry based on pre-conceived ideas put you off listening to the Drs if they think medication is best. My mother would be dead or permanently sectioned without her meds. They have been life saving and have allowed her to have a relatively normal, independent life when otherwise she wouldn’t have done. They are as vital to her as insulin is to a diabetic. There is just much more stigma attached to medication to treat mental health.

[combatbarbie]

Haven't read the full thread but can see you have now started seeing it objectively. I would strongly advise you support the medical advice given to support your daughter, unfortunately your views on medication are not relevant.


Most people don't know that a parent cannot override an under 16s request to accept or refuse medical treatment if they are deemed competent on the knowledge medical staff give them. I only found this out recently myself. May explain why you have not been directly informed.

[combatbarbie]

And just a note to say, if they do medicate it is highly likely she will get worse before it gets better, around 10 days is the adjustment phase for the body so please please just fight through it with her.

[thesnapandfartisinfallible]

Addicted to pills to make her happy? That's a disgusting thing to say.
Firstly they don't work like that, there is no magic pill that makes you happy. They increase the levels of serotonin in the brain by preventing the reuptake. In short they act much the same as insulin, increasing levels of a chemical that her body isn't producing enough of by itself. You can't even compare it to taking painkillers. Its apples and oranges. They are also not difficult to stop as long as you go about it with a bot of common sense. They change your brain chemistry so you have to make any changes gradually 10mg or so at a time.

Secondly, medicine has come a long long way since those early antidepressants. If one makes her feel numb then it's not the right one and she tries another. It's very trial and error. I think I'm on number 7 now and fingers crossed, its working. I'm having more good days than bad. Have you ever had really severe depression? I have. I can tell you what it feels like if you want? It's constant despair and isolation, feeling that nothing will ever get better and you just wish you could die to not have to feel it anymore. Would you rather she felt like that?

It's scary because she's so young? No, what's scary is that she is self harming because she feels so bad and all you're worrying about is the stigma of taking an antidepressant! You're making your issues around taking medication her problem.

Sorry if I sound rude but honestly you sound like my mother and this sort of prejudiced, just pull yourself together, attitude is why I don't tell her anything about my mental health and haven't since I was fairly young. Even when I made an attempt at suicide, I didn't leave her a note because I knew she wouldn't understand regardless.

[LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag]

I have OCD, PTSD and Generalised Anxiety Disorder and have suffered from all of them for a long time. I have therapy but it wouldn't work effectively if I didn't also take the antidepressants. They keep me stable enough to be able to engage properly with the therapy and make sensible decisions.
What does your daughter think about them?

[LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag]

Also, as a PP said, just because she's under 16 doesn't mean that you can refuse medication on her behalf. If she's deemed competent to make her own decisions by medical professionals they can prescribe her the medication without your permission. Have a quick look at Gillick competence.

[bridgetreilly]

My own experience is that I would not have been able to cope at all with talking therapy if I had not been given medication. Talking helps deal with the deeper issues, but you need to be well enough to be able to do that. It sounds as though they have begun the therapy with your daughter and realised that she will be able to benefit from it more if she is able to have medication to correct her brain chemistry now. That doesn't mean she'll need to be on it forever. Usually they review after six months. Please try to trust the doctor on this and encourage your daughter to take the medication.

[talktoo]

was told the treatment she has, and cbt, both only run for 12 weeks. Made me feel a bit like we’d jist be tossed aside at the end of 12 weeks
Well CBT isn't some ongoing rambling therapy. It is a specific, structured program that runs for a set period. It's not just talking to a therapist. I'm the therapist is giving set tasks and mental homework to do. There us no point it going on after 12 weeks. If you haven't hit it by then, then it's not for you.

[bridgetreilly]

*macblank: I've never had any meds for my MH. I'm not sure they'd help either."

And until you try them, how would you know?

"I'm too clever to be deceived by CBT. By that I mean... I know most of the mombojumbo they tell you, about PMA, but that doesn't work for me. I know it's just talk!"

CBT is literally nothing to do with PMA. It's not about cleverness or mumbojumbo. It's not just talk. Please stop talking nonsense to the OP.

Having said that, I do believe in a bit of oomph! There are days, nay weeks, I could go just moping and being all sorrowful, but I refuse to let myself... Always have.
That does not sound like severe depression to me.

Yes I gone through times when I couldn't care if i lived or die, and if I did die, no one would give a shit. I still get them thoughts in top of my MH, but I try to shrug them off.

Bully for you. Again, that does not sound like severe depression. Possibly mild to moderate clinical depression.

I can't get anyone to help.

Have you asked a doctor?