To think school is just crap

[moanymoaner]

I mean why in 2019 are we still teaching children the same generic subjects , making them choose what they want for a future at 14 when they care about nothing and making them sit exams at 15/16 that they will have to rely on for jobs for the rest of their lives!!

As time goes on the more appealing home Ed is becoming , if nothing else than my children being victims of other people's horrors!

I'm genuinely interested in people's thoughts around it . Also I'm not by any means dissing teachers , it's government policy not teachers .

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Nanny, that comment’s about limiting options, not how hairdressers can’t be successful or that it isn’t a worthwhile career.

It’s considerably easier to change your mind about what you want to do with a broad range of subjects rather than a narrow one.

[titchy]

Otherwise you're limiting a large number of kids' futures to plumbing and hairdressing at a very early age.

I wonder why statements like this give me the rage...

It wasn't a comment on the worth or value of those jobs - why did you automatically assume that?

They were examples of non-academic careers that's all, ones you can do with few GCSEs.

[Gingerkittykat]

I know a lot of kids who did badly at school and then went on to do well once put into a different environment afterwards.

My nephew was miserable at school, hated every subject except PE but now coming near to the end of an apprenticeship in the construction industry where he has the potential to have a great career. (he is not happy that he has still had to do literacy and numeracy classes though!)

Another girl, not academic at all, always skipping school and hated every subject. Now 18, just setting up as a self employed make up artist after studying it at college.

We shouldn't be branding non academic kids as failures and letting them find places they will thrive.

[cardibach]

True Fazackerley. Bloody offensive.

[Fazackerley]

Of course I can offer another view. My dcs have been taught by some fabulous, motivated, inspiring teachers. I believe that a lot of home educated children (not all) would probably thrive at mainstream school if their parents would make an effort to work with and support teachers. But some people are determined to make a huge drama out of school when they really needn't.

[moanymoaner]

@TheBreastmilksOnMe yes! Exactly this! Conforming to social norms , do not dare allow them to think or speak outside of the box for fear of reprimand . Detentions for having a different opinion . I love the idea of home Ed , just in reality - I need to work

[Fazackerley]

Orchiddingme Your post reminds me of that great Jeremy Hardy stand up about children being bored "because they are so BRIGHT you see"

[psychedelicleggings]

@cardibach Again, I'm sorry you're offended.

[Chocolatedeficitdisorder]

I'm in Scotland and I would like to see the pupils separate after S2 (year 9ish). They're choosing their subjects and some are obviously taking an academic route and others a vocational path.

[Fazackerley]

Conforming to social norms , do not dare allow them to think or speak outside of the box for fear of reprimand . Detentions for having a different opinion

This has never happened in my experience. And I have four very opinionated dcs

[woodpigeons]

I do agree that our present system based on academic achievement sets a lot of children up to fail.
But I honestly don’t know what the answer is.
I went through the grammar school/secondary modern system which in principle sounded good but in practice meant that those who didn’t pass the 11 plus felt they were failures.
Even worse, at my primary school children were streamed after infants and it could almost be guaranteed that those in the A stream passed the 11 plus and those in the B stream failed it.

[moanymoaner]

@Fazackerley you are indeed lucky . I know a lot of children this happens too!

[BoneyBackJefferson]

psychedelicleggings

I agree with a lot of what you have said but liking teachers to baby sitters just makes you look stupid.

Having children in a class that have chosen the subject incorrectly (normally because parents have made them) makes the job harder. It doesn't turn teachers in to baby sitters.

[psychedelicleggings]

@Fazackerley I don't think anyone is making a 'huge drama out of school'. I just don't think it works and it actually stunts a child's ability to focus on their passion/what they're great at.

I'm sure most teachers have the best intentions when they get their degrees, and I can see the pressure they're under to manage 30 plus kids at a time. I have no gripe with teachers (other than ones who make false and inflammatory statements with the protection of being an 'authority figure'), just with the way our children are being 'educated' by the system.

And to the person who said children learn social skills at school... I would vehemently disagree with that statement.

[Jcsp]

The ripples that have spread out from.......
school league tables,
ofsted,
fear of ofsted,
public accountability,
heads’ understanding of what ofsted wants to see etc etc
have not done education much good.

They have collectively worked against what children and the country really need.

Many of those who have shaped education whilst intelligent are not wise. They haven’t shown empathy for the needs and nature of the country’s children or the country’s future needs.

Austerity hasn’t helped much either.

[psychedelicleggings]

@BoneyBackJefferson Sure, thanks for sharing your opinion.

[psychedelicleggings]

@BoneyBackJefferson Sure, thanks for sharing your opinion.

[cardibach]

soodpigeons Even worse, at my primary school children were streamed after infants and it could almost be guaranteed that those in the A stream passed the 11 plus and those in the B stream failed it
Ummm - could that be because the teachers had made a good call about the ability of the teachers? They selected correctly for academic/not academic? Because I would expect top ability kids to pass 11+ while less academic fail...

[BoneyBackJefferson]

moanymoaner

Whatever you do to education it will never make everyone happy.

[moanymoaner]

@BoneyBackJefferson I know. It's good to think one day we might make some changes though eh :)

[switchedtooverload]

My DC are still primary school age but i love their experience so far. They are definitely developing curious minds as well as gaining knowledge. I love when they come home telling me about what they've learnt. There are some great subjects on the curriculum. They have very enthusiastic teachers.

We're lucky to be in the catchment area for a couple of great secondary schools so fingers crossed it continues. Its sad to hear that it's boring for many. I found school really dull and switched off. Hoping it's different for DC.

I can imagine there is a lot more bullying or stress in terms of socialising that adults appreciate. Teachers are dealing with huge numbers of pupils. The environment is ripe for it.

[monkeysox]

Grass pigeons
". its perfectly possible to be top 1% in maths and physics but need functional skills level English. Everything needs to be flexible"
I totally disagree with you on this.
In order to access the problem solving questions in gcse maths you need a similarly high level of English too.

[greenpop21]

It's all the other subjects they spend hours every week in and don't really learn anything.

History?
Geography?
Food and Nutrition
Basic Science concepts?
PE
Music?
I still remember lots that I learnt at school that I wouldn't have otherwise plus there is the social interaction that home schooled children don't have to deal with=the good and the bad is about learning to cope with real life.

[NotTheFordType]

I loosely agree with you OP. There is a huge amount of crap I learned in school that has only ever been used during games of Trivial Pursuit or to make random conversation. (Me: "Did you know that down the road from this pub, there was a huge battle fought during the Wars of the Roses, it was a major turning point for the House of York?" First Date: Goes to toilet, escapes out of window)

That said, In my previous career I used a lot of maths, a lot of the time. Luckily I always enjoyed algebra! I HATED my maths teacher, but I loved the equations. 😘

I think the main problem for me with the current system is that the kids who are "average" (not in an insulting way, just that their capability is within a normal range) fare the best, the kids who struggle REALLY struggle and often just end up not even trying because of lack of support from the teacher/at home. And the kids who could really excel just end up bored because they're so sick of waiting for everyone else to catch up.

I remember in either a French or Spanish lesson, someone was struggling through reading aloud a few paragraphs of text "To the class" (Do they still do this? I had several sadistic teachers who would pick on people as a punishment and humiliate them in front of their classmates. Wankers) and I'd drift off after the first couple of sentences and just start reading forward through my textbook. Vive La Rochelle! Quel suprise, another letter from my pen friend!

The teacher saw I was turning pages and snapped "Ford, why aren't you paying attention?" I said Oh I am but I'm on page 34. Bitch then told me to read the rest of the piece, which the kid she originally picked on was extremely grateful for. I read it tout suite and parfait and then stared her out, which for me age 12 was what the kids these days would call a mic drop.

In a perfect education system, she would have noticed that I had a gift for languages and recommended me some reading material that would stretch me, or some French films that she could have challenged me to watch with the subtitles off. It was a big school - over 2000 pupils - surely with the right funding they could have run out of hours clubs for every subject.

At "Options" time I was pushed really hard by teachers into taking what was called "Triple Science". This was basically taking 3 subjects (Physics, Chemistry, Biology) in the timetable space of two. I had wanted to take Art, Media Studies and Biology but was basically browbeaten into dropping that and just taking the 3 sciences. If I had taken media I do feel I'd have gone on for A level and uni.

As it was, I did my GCSEs, got 7 As and 2 Bs, and then dropped the fuck out. I was sick of grinding in things I didn't enjoy. Once I'd had a taste of freedom after my GCSEs - a job and money - I was "like fuck am I going back to education."

My DS is the flip side of that story. He has dyslexia and dyspraxia. He hated every minute of his education in numerous different establishments apart from SCIENCE. He loved science, I suspect simply because his teacher was so enthusiatic and supportive. But my god, he'd have been better served with a more practical curriculum. He came into my life (and then in and out) when he was 5 and I know full well he would be functionally illterate right now if I hadn't made it a priority to read with him every night. Even when his birth dad took back custody for a couple of years, I spoke to DS every day on the phone and used to buy two copies of books (Horrible Histories was the bomb for getting him interested), send one to him, and we'd read on the phone every night.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

@moanymoaner

the problems with changes is when they are done by someone with no idea of education.

gove is a prime examples of how someone with no experience in education can fuck something up so badly.

Education has been ever changing since 1988, its rare that 3 years have gone by without some massive change.

There isn't even a way to reliably measure the changes that have been put in place as they haven't been left long enough for a sensible measurement.