In thinking almost 5 grand for a school trip is beyond the joke ??

[BabySharkAteMyHamster]

We live in a town with a massive, rich poor divide. A lot of jobs here are highly skilled so if you can't do those there's little else. It has massive pits of deprivation as well as very wealthy areas.

There are two schools. One being an academy in the middle of one of the poorest areas of the town but also next to an estate where houses sell for upwards of 500k.

Who the hell thinks these trips are a good idea ?? It serves nothing but to highlight the massive rich poor divide and yet again kids who have heard 'no' pretty much from the day they were born will be on the outside looking in whilst the wealthier kids swan off on a month long trip to south America to build schools and lord knows what else . Options are pay half now and half later or pay £60 per week for the next 2 years (( my food bill ))

Why the hell arent these things capped ?? £1000 yes, families could make cutbacks over 2 years and give their kids a chance to experience life outside their barrier but 5 grand is just an impossible task for so many.

Considering so many schools these days obsess over stupid details on school uniforms so that 'every child is equal' isnt it a bit odd they seem to think it's ok to constantly remind them just how unequal they actually are 🤔🤷‍♀️

[Wolfiefan]

DS has jobs to fund his trip. We will pay any shortcoming.
They are doing bag packing and cake selling to raise an extra £1000 or so to invest in the places they visit.

[MaisyPops]

For curriculum lead learning opportunities it should always be everyone (paid for by school) or no one.
Bottom line on that one is that no trips would ever run. The children from families who do expose them to a range of oppprtunity will continue to have that, their parents will take them to the theatre and museums etc and those who don't have that home life (either through lack of financial ability or parental disinterest) dont get any educational enrichment.
With the exception of mandatory fieldwork, most educational trips are to enrich the curriculum.
Schools are struggling to find basic supplies, are making staff redundant and having non core staff teaching out of specialism to fit ks3 teaching hours in. There's no way they can afford to fund 1500 students worth of trips each year, however educational.

The best we can do is aim to keep trips as affordable as possible, offer lots of notice, flexible payments and financial assistance for those who need it. Not ideal, but the best we can do.

[yetmorecrap]

I don't think schools should offer any trips over £100 unless the costs are done by communal rather than individual fund raising to cover total cost. . I have seen a single mum in tears because she didn't want her son to feel left out. I seriously think the people dwho coding it's a great idea lack common sense and even in private schools incomes can be very unequal too

[Bashun]

Are there sponsorship programs available from church affiliated groups or charities to help bridge the monetary gap since the trip is such an altruistic one building houses for poor people in impoverished countries. We have such a system in the U.S. many church charities help underprivileged kids so they can do good works overseas. Money shouldn't be a prohibitive Factor to doing good works. Look into it.there may be a program that helps cover the cost of the trip.

[inashizzle]

Any school trip above £350 is elitist.

[user1499173618]

It’s just not OK for pupils from private schools to fundraise for school trips abroad. Shame on the adults educating them.

[CecilyP]

It’s just not OK for pupils from private schools to fundraise for school trips abroad. Shame on the adults educating them.

It is actually very little to do with the adults educating them. The companies marketing these trips present them as a charitable endeavour and therefore fund raising is then introduced as an essential part of the experience. It then is seen as and acceptable part of the the process regardless of parental income or the fact that parents will pay the bulk of the cost. It is the business model and schools tend to get sucked in and fall for the charitable / fund raising hype.

[CecilyP]

have such a system in the U.S. many church charities help underprivileged kids so they can do good works overseas. Money shouldn't be a prohibitive Factor to doing good work

Why would they do that? What skills would US teens bring to these good works that couldn’t be done by teens in the host country? However you dress it up, it is just paying for a holiday/experience!

[QuantumGroan]

My brother went on a two week project to help build houses in Africa - he is a very keen DIYer - built quite a bit of his own house, is a hard worker and has a heart of gold, he went because it was a thing at his level of management.
His colleague and himself raised nearly £30K from family and friends and when he got out there he discovered all was not as it seemed - he was put on deliberately restrictive hours, he would have worked around the clock. There was a very obvious black market in tools, a new set was bought for every new volunteer, he left feeling the whole thing was dishonest and he was very embarrassed at how little he achieved and the amount of money he has raised that he was convinced wasn't going to help local people at all.
It annoys me that World Challenge try to encourage kids to raise money as if they are doing a charitable deed - it's a holiday and I wish they'd be honest about it. Quite a few kids at dc's school go but my kids knew how I felt about it so didn't even consider asking. Dd's friend works to raise the money but plenty go out with a begging bowl, I wouldn't give a penny.

[user1499173618]

CecilyP - I think you are contradicting yourself. The adults educating children have a responsibility to not let themselves get sucked in by misleading and/or unethical marketing practices and to safeguard the children in their care. That is their job!

[Athrawes]

www.theguardian.com/news/2018/sep/13/the-business-of-voluntourism-do-western-do-gooders-actually-do-harm?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[CecilyP]

User, no, I don’t think I am and, yes, I would have thought so too. I don’t know how these trips have managed to become so established in our secondary schools.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

My brother ... left feeling the whole thing was dishonest and he was very embarrassed at how little he achieved and the amount of money he has raised that he was convinced wasn't going to help local people at all

That was very self aware of him, but perhaps his being older made a difference to his grasp of reality/skill set?

In all fairness, when you've seen your hopeful, idealistic teenager work to get the money together, getting excited over each £100 raised, it can't be easy to admit it may have been a mistake

Maybe it would be better if everyone took a more questioning stance in the first place?

[QuantumGroan]

I agree that it’s quite shocking that schools have allowed these companies to promote their product, quite a few teachers go too - os their trip funded by the kids or are they self funded?

[dustyparadeground]

My daughter did World Challenge. Tanzania. Yes it was a bit of a jolly even she agreed that at 16 years old. However they did paint a local school and we felt it "broadened horizons" quite a bit actually. She raised the money herself 2K if I recall (mostly baby sitting and some cleaning as well as flogging a few unneeded possessions) and we felt it introduced her to some of life's harsh realities. However I can easily see that it might be very tough to raise 2K in a poorer area.

[user1499173618]

These trips have become established in schools because SLTs and governing bodies have let themselves be seduced by the marketing ploys of the companies that run them. Responsibility lies with SLTs and governors: they alone are the decision makers.

Term long outdoor residentials are a different (but also problematic) issue. They are part of the curriculum but parents have to pay and vulture like PE backed companies have moved into the space to offer prepackaged tailor made “experiences” of little educational merit.

[user1499173618]

Week long

[specialsubject]

not bag packing, utterly useless. go pick litter, paint houses and weed gardens for those in need in this country.

[Furrycushion]

or are they self funded?
Their costs will be covered by the pupils costs. They would argue that it's not much of a "holiday" looking after other people's children.

[user1499173618]

The teachers at my DD’s school tried telling us it wasn’t a holiday for them. Fine, said all the parents, let’s cancel the trip. Oh no, said the teachers, it will be good for the children.

The children hated it.

[QuantumGroan]

Teachers at our school went on about what an amazing time the teachers had - I’m not suggesting they should pay but I think it’s definitely a perk!

[user1499173618]

The companies that run these trips know that the SLT/teachers are the ones to market to.

[MaisyPops]

QuantumGroan
Enjoying the trips and then being a holiday are different though. I have lots of fond memories of school trips and some moments and attractions I've really found interesting and entertaining (I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the show we took students to see in London), but holiday it isn't.

I never quite get the angst from some people that staffing and staffing costs has to be covered in the cost of the trips.
Sharing out staff expenses for a larger trip I've done would still have been cheaper than billing the overtime payments to staff who've worked half their holiday. (And the cover bill for any time the trips overlap with term time. It's about £300 a day to get a teacher from an agency but schools tend to foot that cost themselves and not pass it on. A teacher off school for 3 days is nearly £1000. I mean that could also be added onto any trip being ran as well.)

When I've seen people doing these big world trips (much as I disagree with the trips), staff are usually fundraising too, spend multiple weekends supporting students in their fundraising, supervising sponsored events, running discos or fundraising evenings. Again, you could tot up every additional hour the staff do and pay them standard overtime rate and you'd quickly hit the thousands.

No staff = no trip.
Or should staff pay out of their own pocket for the privilege of giving up evenings, weekends and their holidays?

Like I say, I hate voluntourism trips but the repeated idea that somehow trips are a jolly for teachers and it's wrong that costs for staffing are included is a bit beyond me.

[QuantumGroan]

Maisy - I did say I wasn’t suggesting they should pay but it’s a perk imo - maybe there aren’t enough perks in teaching!

[user1499173618]

From a teacher’s POV I can understand that, if they are going to do a school trip, it might as well be as exotic and unusual as possible.