school fallout

[mrwolf1234]

Nc for this but I'm long time poster and lurker.

I have been friends with someone for a long time, since our dc were in pre school. Our dc have always fought, 1 min best friends and the next enemies so we tend to not get involved and let them work it out. They are now not very good friends, they play sometimes but not really.

They are now in yr 4 and whilst my dc isn't an angel, they are never in trouble, regularly have praise and I see their behaviour in school as I am a TA as well. They are not unkind, cheeky sometimes but not unkind (I wouldn't tolerate it).

Friends dc is also a lovely child but can be quite nasty at times, there have been multiple incidence's of lying, manipulation, hurting etc. Friend tries her very best although she parents differently to myself I don't necessarily think she is wrong on any front.

One weekend my dc stopped eating, wouldn't touch anything and was getting lethargic, finally managed to find out what had happened and friends dc have told my dc they were fat (they are not 50% percentile for weight) and it had really upset them.

For the record there have been multiple things like lying, hitting my dc, saying mean things etc and I've always told my friend and she has told her dc off but nothing changes.

Its a shame because when they are being nice, they are a pleasure to have around but when they are being mean its horrible to see. I've seen them hit another child because they thought they were prettier or whispering to much younger children about how they will do mean things to their parents, they even killed a nest of baby birds that the yr 6 had found.

Anyway this weekend in question I was livid and I've had enough so I bypassed my friend and went straight to the teacher, for the teacher it was the last straw due to other things so friends dc was given a punishment which was effective.

But I feel so guilty, my friend sees the best in her dc (because its her baby) my friend keeps mentioning it to me and I cringe inside knowing I cannot tell her it was me.

My friend thinks her dc is blameless and wouldn't ever be as mean as someone has complained but the truth is, they have. I hate to admit it but its horrible to see sometimes.

was I unreasonable? I would of gone to my friend but nothing would of been done really. She would of been upset, disappointed and she is my friend, a very good friend.

I feel crap about it all to be honest.

[shockthemonkey]

Sorry about all this aggro, OP.

I am weirdly stuck on the bird's nest. Did year 6 find a bird's nest and wrench it from the bush (this takes quite some effort, as they are usually well glued to the branches), to bring into class as some kind of a nature display?

This is totally wrong and the school ought to have made that clear, and done their best to restore the nest. The eggs would never have hatched without proper incubation.

... unless the biology teacher whipped out an incubator she had lurking in a cupboard for just such an eventuality???

[ConciseandNice]

This sounds appalling. I have a friend whose child is similarly badly behaved and my friend keeps complaining that their child gets no play dates etc and is isolated, but she doesn’t accept that he’s so mean that other kids are plain scared of them. We’ve had rows about it and now I just keep my mouth shut. I do know though that my kids will be kept away from them. The egg thing is a serious red flag and the school need to know if they don’t already.

[mrwolf1234]

The best was in a bush and being looked after by the birds. Yr 6 had “found” it and were making sure no one touches it etc No one had touched the nest or the birds. Friend is not religious at all.

[SouthWestmom]

What exactly happened with the nest? You say you were all excited to see what happened with the babies. So was this a well protected nest you were all aware of, or a fallen nest in the playground with loads of kids crowded round?

[mrwolf1234]

It was a nesr that was viabsble through a bush that yr 6 had found. They were making sure no one touches it. But friends dc found it and crushed the eggs.

[mrwolf1234]

Bad typing I’m on a phone. I’ve got my answer so will be bowing out for now. Thank you everyone.

[theluggageslegs]

You’re not being unreasonable here: letting the teacher know about issues is appropriate, hashing it out between parents is not (especially when the parent is wilfully ignorant regarding their child’s behaviour.) Id question whether your friend is really someone you’d want to be around, with her attitude towards discipline and parenting in general.

There is a child like this in my son’s class. Nothing is ever possibly their fault, parent has a million and ten ready excuses for appalling behaviour and says it is in fact their child being bullied, because the other children no longer want to play with them.
Said child is in fact manipulative, will recruit other children to participate in bullying (ie do their dirty work in the form of hitting and kicking) and well versed in how to avoid being punished. So now I ask my son to be kind and polite towards his child but emphasise that there is no obligation to play with him.

[ReservoirDogs]

People are missing the point.

Op.mentioned the nest incident as an example of what the child had done. OP reported the child for the bullying of her child.

OP I don't think you necessarily have to come clean that it was you. If your friend raises it again I would just say something like we never really know what they are like when we are not around. I am afraid to have to tell you that your dc upset mine terribly by saying X and I am sure you would never have dreamt they'd do something like that.

[JamPasty]

I would never show to the dc that I’m upset by their behaviour

Why not OP? Surely them seeing that their behaviour is upsetting would be a good thing and actually useful to them?

[WhiteWalkerWife]

Your dc shouldnt have to learn when her dc is about to turn and stay away. That is unfair on them and could make them unsettled. You need to distance.

You dont want to teach your dc to accept that kind of nasty behaviour- being hurt or anxious. It sets a bad precedent for relationships and friendships to come.

[Coyoacan]

"Is she possibly being brought up in a fundamentalist religious atmosphere with very black-and-white lines between 'good' and 'bad' which are contributing to the parent's denial and the child's need to project as perfect to the parent while doing sneaky nasty things?"

Not the same but similar. A friend of mine was not religious but very black and white in her thinking, so if she could eventually be convinced that her child had been naughty in a way that was quite normal for a child of his age, she would go completely over the top. So her son wasn't nasty but was incapable of owning up to any misbehaviour.

[rosesandflowers1]

I think your friend needs to get help for their child.

• manipulative
  
• they threaten to hurt other children's parents
  
• needless destruction/ending of life
  
• lies well and manipulatively
  
• makes directed and nasty comments - and, based on what else you've told us, I imagine the child knew that the fat comment would upset your child particularly
  
• feels seemingly petty jealousy and acts on it to cause upset
  
• but is sometimes very "nice"
  

This is the sort of thing you need to pick up on when a person is a child. Honestly now I've written it down it sounds a bit like socio or psychopathy. Obviously don't brand your friend's child.

I don't know how you'd bring this up but it sounds disturbing.

Regarding the issue, does your friend know that it was your child that was called fat?

[mrwolf1234]

No my friend doesn’t know it was my child that was called fat. Just that it was a child in the class and my dc hasn’t said anything, it took a lot of coaxing to get the truth as at first he wouldn’t say who said it.

Such a hard situation. I do a lot for my friend and her dc but I always make sure I’m around and the dc are not alone due to things being said and done.

I truly don’t have the guts to tell my friend it was me. Not only has her dc been punished but al it would do is upset my friend that I didn’t go direct to her and make myself feel better by being ‘honest’

[mummymeister]

Honestly, and I think you already know this, this friendship is unsustainable. How will you handle sleepovers as they get older if you cant leave them alone together now for fear of bullying?

your DC probably feels that they have to be friends with this child because you and his mum are friends and that is what is "expected"

Put YOUR child first in all of this. not you, not the other mum, not anyone else but your child. speak to him one to one. ask how he would feel if he wasn't such close friends with this child any more. If you see a hint of relief in his answer then you know your answer.

nothing you say to this other mum is going to make a blind bit of difference in my opinion. she wont believe it and she wont act. but this child has some serious issues and you already know this.

so what are you going to do? wait for your child to copy the other one and become a little shit? or wait for something life changing to be said by this other child or done to your child?

this is a toxic friendship and by staying friends with the mum you are enabling it. so you have to stop. don't say anything just gradually withdraw and if she brings it up then pass on your concerns.

but don't expect her or him ever to change because its unlikely.

Ask any teacher. a bully in year 4 becomes a big bully in year 6 and an even bigger one later on. sorry but at the moment you are letting your dc down by not acting.

[rosesandflowers1]

No my friend doesn’t know it was my child that was called fat. Just that it was a child in the class

Ah. I was going to say that they'd deduce it was your child.

I wouldn't let the kids be together unless under your supervision. Keeps your child safe and happy, and I daresay it might make the mother consider more carefully.

[emmyrose2000]

I wouldn't tell the woman that I had spoken to the teacher, but I would cut off this so-called friendship. It's not bringing anything positive to your life, nor, more importantly, to your child's life.

Friendships shouldn't be something where you're wondering whether this is going to be a good day or a bad day. The fear of bullying shouldn't be something hovering at the back your mind, which is obviously the case here. Your child doesn't deserve that.

I was friends for about a year with a mother/child combo like this. In the end I totally cut them off. The child was awful and the mother toxic. It was the best thing I ever did, and I just wish I'd done it sooner.

[TrudeauGirl]

I can't get over him crushing the eggs, that's awful. Those poor birds.

[LML83]

Concentrate on dc and this rubbish friendship. I would be teaching dc to distance themselves from people who are mean to him/her. I would say people who say things like that are often having problems themselves. Maybe school work is hard, home is stressful or maybe they haven't learned how words effect others yet. (by yr4 they bloody should have though!)

For you and the mum, distance yourself if you aren't bothered about friendship. If you do care about friendship try to keep quiet on the subject of her child. If she asks I would be prepared to give an honest opinion of what you know. If my friend had this knowledge of my child I would want to know. But she might not like it. I would take it better from best friend or sister/sil rather than school mum. I am not sure how close you are.