to delay payment to a tradesman?

[birdsinthesky]

We had some work done on our house recently and the payment was split 50/50 with our neighbours, but we organised the work.

The work was meant to take 2 days, and we agreed that it would be finished by x date, because we had other work (through a different tradesman) that could only be done after that was complete.

They called us a couple of days before to say they couldn't make it on that day and would come back the following week. A bit annoying, but fine, as the second bit of work was booked in for the week after that. They came in for one day and left saying 'see you tomorrow', but then didn't show up for the second day. They called to say there was an issue with some of the materials which meant they couldn't come until the following week.

This meant we had to move the second bit of work, messing around the other tradesmen and delaying that by a further 2 weeks.

They finished the work last Thursday and it's great - we are really happy with the result. They then sent the invoice on Thursday afternoon, and I paid my half at the weekend, and forwarded the bill to my neighbour. They sent an email this morning and called me in the afternoon asking me to settle it completely and if I could chase up my neighbour to ask him to pay it today.

AIBU to not want to hassle my neighbour for payment after only 2 working days of receiving the invoice? Especially since they messed us about with the timing?

There are no payment terms on the invoice or the website, but in my experience 7 days is the shortest 'standard' term I've seen on an invoice - it's usually more like 14 or 28.

[Defender90]

Should have insisted on two separate agreements / contracts / invoices, that way they would chase your neighbour and not you.

[Defender90]

Posted too quickly.

Sorry.

The delay in materials etc may well have been caused by a previous customer (or their neighbour) not settling on completion, cash flow can cause real knock on issues for small contractors.

[Sammyham]

YANBU, it's not your responsibility to pay your neighbours half and if the tradesmen were aware of the situation of you splitting it 50-50 then I really don't get why they're chasing you up about it and not your neighbour.

It's hardly like they were committed to making sure they had the materials ready or getting the work done on time and didn't seem too fussed about mucking the other tradesman about as well as yourself and making you wait for weeks so why should they expect to paid immediately, especially when it's not your amount to be paid?

[19lottie82]

it's not your responsibility to pay your neighbours half

Unfortunately, it is. All the paperwork is in the OP’s name, not the neighbours.

[2blueshoes]

I think the tradesmen should have been paid in full at one time. You are happy with the finished results, you organised the work, neighbours should have paid you, or given you the money, so you could pay them in full at the right time.

Yabu.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

I would probably respond with the same wording they used when they told you they couldn't meet their agreement to do the work when stated.

You do owe it. You should pay in a timely manner. However, in the situation you describe, I wouldn't go out of my way to chase up with the neigbours until this Thursday.

[Kardashianlove]

I don't want to screw them over. You have done though, they sent the invoice last Thursday, you already didn’t pay until the weekend then only paid half. They’ve had to chase you up then you’ll speak to your neighbour and wait for them to pay so it’s getting on for a week. You should have just paid the full amount on the day.

[InfiniteSheldon]

If you don't want to be a dick about it then don't be! You don't get to punish them for delaying the work, you already accepted the delays and are happy with the work. You organised the job you received an invoice you should pay it.

[Mrskray]

You owe them so pay them, it is so wrong to keep a small business waiting.

Tell neighbour you’ve paid in full, and chase them for 50% (which you may never see unless you got a valid contract with them).

Legally it is all your debt.

The builder has done a good job, now you are messing him around, he’ll probably never work for you again.

[londonrach]

You organised the work so responsible for whole bill. Every tradesman ive had is payment on completion no waiting. Can you pay the rest and claim it back from your neighbour. Tradesman doesnt care about who pays...he has a contact with you. That bill needs paying now

[Missingstreetlife]

Are you expecting neighbour to pay you, or builder direct? What is your neighbour expecting?
I might copy the invoice to the neighbour with a note saying which do they want to do? Then inform builder about timescale.
Don't pay yet, but you may have to if neighbour defaults

[ChocolateWombat]

Their delays to doing your work and when you should pay the invoice are 2 separate issues.

The work was delayed. It is done now and that is over.

Invoices should be paid promptly, but tradesmen should allow a reasonable time for this and any sensible one will specify the time limit. They should not chase payment within a couple of days. I think paying within 7 days would be a good idea.

Whoever received the invoice will be responsible for paying all of it. If tht was you, you will need to follow up the neighbour for their share, but not after 2 days. It may well have been better to simply pay when you had all the money together.

So decide when you are going to pay, separate it in your mind for the delayed work, make sure you have the money in good time for payment (allowing for the fact your neighbour might not be as prompt as they say they will be) and pay up. If you want to comment on the delays to the work being done, hopefully you did so by email at the time.

[twinkydink]

I really don't understand anyone who doesn't pay an invoice as soon as it is received. This is slightly complicated by the fact you are splitting with your neighbour but I do think it's your responsibility for chasing them as you organised it.

If the supplied couldn't provide the materials then the work couldn't be done. It's annoying and they should have been more apologetic but you can't delay paying on that basis!

Small businesses run on small margins and if every person they did work for delayed payment it would have a huge impact.

[ChocolateWombat]

Most businesses would find it strange to receive payment of only 50% of the bill. This would be the case if 50% were paid on the day the invoice was sent or a week later or later than that. Having received 50% it wouldn't be surprising for them to contact you to ask for the remaining amount - it really doesn't matter who is paying it - they are just interested in receiving payment in full....not in instalments.

I wouldn't have paid my 50% until I had the full amount in hand so it could all be paid in one go. As the invoice holder, I do think you now seek to ask your neighbours for the rest....actually by paying some, it is your action rather than the tradesmans that now means the rest needs paying quickly....as a part paid bill is more worrying for a tradesman than one not paid - he might be thinking you only intend to pay half.

Again, separate the invoice issue from the delays with the job. They are separate issues. Don't feel awkward asking your neighbour for the money. Send them a note saying you'd like to claearer the invoice in the next day or so (give a deadline) and so would appreciate the money ASAP. If this feels awkward or if it creates problems, do t get into this kind of arrangement again - either have separate invoices or separate jobs. And if your neighbours are slow to pay up, that is down to them and not to be blamed on the builders delays.

[birdsinthesky]

So out of interest, how quickly do tradesmen usually expect to be paid? Within minutes? hours? a day?

I was working on the assumption that 5 working days was still 'prompt' so I wasn't aware I was breaching the normal etiquette, let alone a contract requirement. Bear in mind we are talking about a couple of days here - if I'd paid by cheque (which I was still doing until a year ago!), they wouldn't have the money in their account for 5 working days anyway. So they are hardly going under because of this.

I was shocked by the comment that a builder who ran late and completed his work to a good standard "is a good recommendation where I'm from". Thankfully this is not the case where I come from. In what other industry is it ok to delay the start, then start but not show up for day 2, not communicate promptly, not apologise (when you know there will be knock-ons - not just to me but to other tradesmen just like them!). I'm in the service industry and I'd not have a job for long if I did any of that. it's basic stuff!

[19lottie82]

So out of interest, how quickly do
tradesmen usually expect to be paid?

When the job is finished, before they leave

[birdsinthesky]

So out of interest, how quickly do tradesmen usually expect to be paid?
When the job is finished, before they leave

That definitely wasn't the expectation here. They left saying nothing about payment, even though I was in the house, and I received the invoice by email.

[LoopyGremlin]

My husband is a tradesman who runs his own business. His policy is payment upon satisfactory completion. He learned this the hard way after some people not paying for weeks or just bumping him altogether. This is made clear to the customer before the work is booked in and he has card facilities so the person can pay by credit card if they need to.

[AJPTaylor]

i have always paid by direct transfer on receipt of invoice. the only time i havent is when we had a chunk of work done and builder put in contract last 1000 to be paid 2 weeks after to allow for snagging etc.
i think its the decent thing to do. these days its no effort to pay immediately and securely. Genuinely if the work is done, why wouldnt you?

[PrettyLovely]

They did the job so pay them asap, You are already late, Its not fair them having to chase you. YABVU!

[SK166]

My husband is a tradesman (albeit a more considerate one than yours, apparently!) and generally his clients will pay him on the day of completion - either by cash or cheque - or within a couple of days of receiving the invoice, which he would send out the day of completion. He doesn’t ask for payment on the day in person, but that’s the most common practice from his clients as they know he is an individual and not a bigger company with a steady cash flow. I agree with previous posts saying the delays to the work and the invoice payment are two separate issues. Unfortunately, in trades work, delays do arise for lots of reasons - often due to supply of parts which is beyond the control of the tradesman themself. My husband has, on more than one occasion, gone to a supplier to collect parts they’ve stated were ready, on his way to the job, only to find the parts aren’t ready and he cannot then go on to the client to do the work. That said, communication about these issues should be prompt, clear and apologetic, in my opinion. It would be fair to comment on the level of communication in a review, balanced with your statement that you are pleased with the quality of the work. That’s fair and reasonable feedback.

But...you should pay the invoice and chase your neighbours. No written agreement is in place that states the split responsibility - it’s an arrangement you made, not the tradesmen. The work is complete, they didn’t ask for any payment up front, so you should now ensure the full balance is cleared.

Your issues with the communication/delays should be appropriately directed into your feedback/public review.

[2blueshoes]

I always pay the day it's finished, if the work is satisfactory.

[ChocolateWombat]

If tradesmen want paying on the day they complete the job, they need to state it in their terms. This is fine, if it is stated. Most will send an email invoice immediately the job is completed and it will say that it is for immediate payment. Given that some people might post a cheque, they won't have the money in their account for about a week in reality. If people make an electronics transfer the money can be there more quickly.
If people take a couple of days to get on and pay, most tradesmen are not going to create a fuss about it unless they suspect payment might not be forthcoming or in full. Having short waits for payment is part of the billing and receiving process if you only invoice at the end of the job....but purposely delaying payment isn't reasonable, and doing it because you feel entitled to because of delays in the work process is confusing 2 separate issues. Paying half rather than a full invoice is odd and would raise concerns in a tradesman, who then would need to follow up the other half.

So I don't agree that in all circumstances, the tradesman should have the money in his/her hand on the day of completion....unless that term has specifically been agreed, and if it has, then you might well be talking bout cash, to truly have it in their hand at that point, which many customers are not keen on as they think it's a tax dodge. If someone hands over a cheque on the day of completion, there is still the risk of a bounce or the cheque needs paying in and will take a few days to clear....so still no immediate payment, and even electronic will take a couple of days. So in reality, there is rarely immediate payment because it's not possible. That said, getting on with making a payment is really important. We are not talking about big business charging big business with a 90 day payment window here.

If I were a tradesman working on any reasonably sized job, I would be asking for phased payment and spelling out the invoicing and payment time scales very clearly. When there is a lack of clarity in the communication, problems can creep in.

Get on and pay up today. Do the right thing.

[birdsinthesky]

This is academic now - the neighbours paid on the Monday evening.

However I wanted to clarify that I wasn't planning to use the delay to 'punish' them. Rather I didn't feel prepared to go above beyond what I considered a reasonable turnaround (i.e. a week), before hassling the neighbours. However, it seems pretty clear that 'on completion' is the standard so I'll expect to do that in future - although I'm still surprised they didn't tell me explicitly!

I also couldn't have afforded to pay them the neighbours' half, so that wouldn't have been an option. The builders knew about the 50/50 arrangement from the start and agreed to the separate payments (it's also how we paid the deposit). From now on I'll get them to do separate invoices if we split the work.

Thanks for the insights!