To be absolutely disgusted about the OXFAM revelations?

[yolofish]

Forgive me if there is already another thread but I couldnt find one...

So Haiti: devastated by an earthquake. Head honchos come in - and they host a party in which young Haitian girls appeared wearing nothing but Oxfam tshirts - literally nothing else, according to today's Sunday Times.

Oxfam does amazing work of course. but gets £32m of tax payers' money year in year out - and this happened 7 years ago.

I am truly disgusted by these events.

[NotAnotherJaffaCake]

Isn’t history showing us that wherever you get large institutions (and smaller ones too) looking after vulnerable people, you get abuse. Catholic Church, care homes, Oxfam, the list goes on. I’ll be more surprised when abuse doesn’t happen.

[FancyNewBeesly]

Yeah they sacked them and tried to keep it’s quiet as possible, in the hope that people wouldn’t find out their donations were funding vulnerable prostitutes, some underage.

They should have made a big example of these people, brought it to the attention of them the public and shown this would not be tolerated. That’s not what they’ve done at all.

[ShatnersWig]

I work with one of the world's leading paed neuro-oncologists and when I asked him directly how much he'd need and how long a major breakthrough would take he said £2.5m and one year.

Sorry, but I simply don't believe that. If that was true, there are wealthy people who would write him a cheque for that today. Your charity would only need to contact a handful of people or organisations and you'd have that money.

[InfiniteSheldon]

Lots of minimizing here, calling underage abused girls/incredibly vulnerable women with no choices left prostitutes, not sure these workers have even worked in the uk , but they were sacked similar scandals have happened overseas with Save the Children and the police were called Save the Children wanted those men prosecuted. Oxfam wanted it covered up, men given references and allowed to move on to another charity. Oxfam shouldn't receive another penny of public money they have aided and abetted abuse.

[BertrandRussell]

I read something yesterday talking about 6 year old girls "exchanging" sex for aid. As if it was some sort of legitimate transaction, ffs.

[Figmentofmyimagination]

Be careful what you wish for - the 'why are we giving all this money to foreign aid' mob are out in force today all over the tabloids.

The answer is simple, as the CEO of oxfam made clear on Saturday. There should be a searchable central register like the safeguarding register in place for teaching. U.K. Charities should be under a statutory obligation to refer aid workers linked to sexual misconduct, fraud etc to the register. Job done. No need for all the hysteria that is a gift to the anti-foreign-aid mob.

[ljlkk]

YABU.

[giraffesatthezoo]

Here's the thing though- they have said they didn't give references. That it was noted in their internal system to never employ or give references to those men again. It's entirely likely the men involved asked a mate who they used to work with for an informal reference, and those people didn't know what happened and obliged.

I recently was involved in letting someone go. We took legal advise. I would love to be able to give a honest reference on their performance as I've since learned there were similar issues in her last employment that weren't mentioned in the reference I got, but I have been advised that legally I could be sued- now there was nothing like this involved, but unless you have a high level of proof you are v limited in what you can say. In many cases, the best option is to get the staff member out as quickly as possible and accepts resignation if necessary.

Re: the high salary/small local charity division- I promise you in the majority of cases small/ local charities aren't better value, though I will say charity salaries in the international sector are lower than in the national charity one.

Let's say you have a CEO earning 120k/year, and running an organisation working in 40 countries with 5000 staff and a 100 million turnover. The 'comparable' salary of a small local charity CEO, earning maybe 40k, managing 20 staff, in reality is comparable with a much lower down staff member in the large NGO, who is also managing 20 or 30 staff and earning 40k, but has many layers above him and has to meet the same standards. There are economies of scale, more robust safeguarding measures.

As it happens, I think organisations should only be so big, and I think we need to see a reduction in the number of overseas agencies. In response to this kind of abuse, we also need much more robust systems. But it's naive to think there's a way that will stop all abuse, and by creating an incentive where once it comes out people stop donating to the charity involved- I worry about he message that will send to the next big INGO involved in a similar issue with their staff.

[onlyconnect]

Of course it's awful but it also plays into the Hans of the "stop foreign aid" brigade. I'm not sure that the timing is a coincidence either with Reece-Mogg bringing up foreign aid now.
I want it dealt with thoroughly but not in such a way that it makes people stop donating by portraying it as more than it was. Im not down playing the seriousness of that incident but also think people need to realise that it's sadly the case that there will sometimes be terrible goings-on in big organisations.

[greendale17]

I work with one of the world's leading paed neuro-oncologists and when I asked him directly how much he'd need and how long a major breakthrough would take he said £2.5m and one year.

Sorry, but I simply don't believe that. If that was true, there are wealthy people who would write him a cheque for that today. Your charity would only need to contact a handful of people or organisations and you'd have that money.

^Thisb

[InfiniteSheldon]

In many cases, the best option is to get the staff member out as quickly as possible and accepts resignation if necessary or in this case use the option: call the police register the offence and accept the bad publicity might be best option for The publuc, the victims and future potential employers. Taking the best option for The Company is not acceptable for a charity funded by the public it should be more accountable.

[phoebemac]

It is shocking and disgusting, but why is it only now being dragged out nearly seven years on? Why wasn't there a fuss about it at the time? Maybe I'm cynical but I do wonder whether this is about genuine concern for the women who have been exploited or whether it is an attempt by the rich and powerful to destroy Oxfam's reputation in light of the report they published a couple of weeks ago:

www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/01/82-of-all-wealth-generated-last-year-went-to-the-richest-1-while-the-poorest-half-got-nothing-says-oxfam/

[phoebemac]

"The report also reveals that 42 people now own the same wealth as the poorest half of humanity. "

[k2p2k2tog]

call the police register the offence

Totally - if the people involved fall under UK rules. But these people involved in this were Haitian, there is no proof one way or the other of the age of the women involved, and at the time, the Haitian police were also dealing with the aftermath of a hurricane with no infrastructure and dead officers. UK police would not investigate anything involving non-UK nationals which happened overseas, that's not their remit. Who do you report things to when there is no functioning police force?

However distasteful and dreadful this thing was and it was certainly appalling, was it a crime? I'm not up to speed on Haitian law. Abuse of power most definitely though, and sacking was the right action.

[giraffesatthezoo]

The problem is, they have said they couldn't go to the police without getting the girls involved in more trouble than the men. I believe this: I've lived in countries where using prostitutes was a slap on the wrist and being a prostitute, even if abused or trafficked, was being rounded up and thrown into a cell.

I also suspect the burden of proof is much lower for sacking someone than having them prosecuted.

I absolutely agree that there should be ways people can be blacklisted. But I've also seen first hand the difficulties of British management staff in a foreign country, managing local staff, being perplexed as to why their own country standards weren't being followed. Enforcement can be really difficult.

I knew of a British expat who drove drunk in the country I lived in, and killed a family. He was jailed, and got or in under six months. He was back drinking in pubs, telling stories of life in prison, like he was a hero, regardless of the fact that if it had happened in the U.K. He'd be serving a ten year sentence. A good few people didn't want to associate with him anymore, but as far as I'm aware he went back to employment as he could just leave that time off his CV and there would be no way of checking.

I welcome this publicity, I think it's about time some effort went into thinking about how to systematically deal with abuse and overseas aid. But I don't think the mechanisms are currently there now, and while I'm sure there's more to come out, I'm not sure what good Oxfam would have done by saying 'we have sacked staff for using prostitutes,' esp in a context where they hadn't been prosecuted and there presumably wasn't a sufficient level of proof.

[PerkingFaintly]

I have lived overseas in third world countries and there was use of local prostitutes by usually lone richer western or eastern males working abroad.

This, and much worse.

I was an expat – not in the charity or NGO sector – and there are some men who are on the expat circuit because it enables them to sexually exploit vulnerable people, including abusing children. They take advantage of poverty and of weak institutions, of having a clean sheet whenever they move, and sometimes collude happily with local paedophiles.

Positions in schools, religious organisations or healthcare suit them particularly well, but anything will do.

The Western child-rapist is actually a stereotype in some countries. Often cast as gay, particularly in countries which don't get too concerned when it's "only" girls being raped...

I sometimes read posters here stereotyping men from certain countries as rapists. You have no idea, no idea, how Western men are seen in some of those countries – and with reason.

If people are now sitting up and taking notice because it was charity employees rather than eg an oil company, then about bloody time.

[Geronimoleapinglizards]

perking that makes me feel sick. I can well imagine the kind of things you're talking about

[PerkingFaintly]

I had a nervous breakdown partly because of it, Geronimo. There was nothing I could do to stop it and it made my job seem pointless. In retrospect, just doing my job probably did still have some teeny positive outcomes for women – but they were nowhere near enough.

In one place I was a new, junior arrival and learned of it when the manager made a general announcement that staff (expats and nationals) should improve their behaviour because the villagers were beginning to get pissed off.

When I asked (female, national) colleagues what on earth that was about, they explained. So EVERYONE knew - employer, local police, whole damn village. The employer (national) very occasionally sacked expats, but mostly preferred to keep skilled staff, expat or national, and post them around when things got too hot.

There was a rumour that a particular isolated village, a day's drive from the nearest big town, was where a lot of them ended up. I used to think about the girls of that village, and how they couldn't escape.

[PerkingFaintly]

We recognise that most teachers, say, aren't paedophiles – but that teaching is a profession paedophiles find attractive.

From my experience above, I'd guess the same is true of the charity sector. Most charity workers aren't paedophiles or sexual abusers – but paedophiles and sexual abusers find parts of the sector attractive.

These blokes weren't spending their Saturday mornings standing in the rain selling poppies or tediously sorting bric a brac.

[yolofish]

shatners greendale I can categorically assure you it is true. (what he said - he may not of course be right). At the right time we will be launching an appeal using the figure and the time frame; cant at the moment for various reasons. As I said earlier, there is already some amazing work being done in trials in the UK and Europe but I cant say more because they are not in the public domain yet.

[TovaGoldCoin]

Pretty much anytime any western organisation sends people to countries in upheaval, sex trafficking and exploitation occurs. Whether its the UN, the Army or a charity....

[ShatnersWig]

yolo In the nicest way possible - the right time was yesterday. When the fuck is the “right time” to launch an appeal with that figure? Because in the scheme of things that amount is frankly a drop in the ocean amongst cancer funding generally and I repeat, there are wealthy people or trusts who would write that cheque tomorrow. I doubt that figure, quite honestly, and I question his expertise if that’s what he thinks.

People are dying or suffering on a daily basis from brain tumours. My aunt had one last February which left her paralysed and she died in October. She was 48 with three youngish children, the youngest of whom had cancer at the age of two. I have two other friends who have had brain tumours in their youth and fortunately following surgery have been OK. Oddly enough, I’m involved in an event only next month to raise money for the Brain Tumour Charity.

“Right time” to launch an appeal. Fuck’s sake.

[PerkingFaintly]

There was no one to whistleblow TO, because everyone already knew!

That was the utterly shocking thing.

If it had just been the case that I could go tell someone and that would make it stop, then I'd have done that like a shot. I'd have been deported but so what.

If the employer had been British, I'd have attempted to find out something of better evidential value than third-hand whispers about people some of whom were now on the other side of the country. But they weren't, so no leverage there.

Literally everybody knew more than me by the time I heard of it – including the employer, the police and the local nationals.

[yolofish]

shatners you dont know anything about my charity. If you would like to know more then please look at //www.charlottesbag.com. I also think you'll find that foundations, trusts etc usually want 3 years accounts before they will contribute; we are only 16 months old and have just filed our first set of accounts.

We have no salaries, no advertising, no overheads. We self-fund everything. We have already raised £130k which will fund a research scientist for 3 years (because you need continuity in research) and leave some spare while we raise the rest we need.

I dont doubt the guy's expertise, I know him well and understand his passion for his work and where he wants to take it. Saying that there is never a 'right time' is frankly ridiculous, we were going to go out with the story/appeal but then the last general election was announced. Guess what the news media covered??? Since then there have been other things... but look at our website if you want to know more.

BTC by the way spend an awful lot of money on non-essential things and have some very high salaries. I have watched two friends die from glioblastoma, I'm not messing about with this.