Can my employer make me do this?

[thedoginthenighttime]

I'm a regular but have namechanged.

I work in a role with 'normal' office hours. I'm responsible for quite a large budget, of which a considerable amount is spent at a weekend (involves retail without being too outing).

Lately I've been having to log on and do a little work on the weekends, which is unpaid. Today my employer told me they are not happy and want to formalise weekend working.

This will be in the form of two hours each weekend day. It will be every other week alternating with another colleague.

In exchange for this they have offered four hours off during the week. There will be restrictions on when I can take this.

My concerns are:

1 - I already work lunchtimes, late nights to get my work done. The weekend workload will be an addition. I cannot foresee any day where I would be able to take back four hours.

2 - I don't see the weekend work can be completed in this two hours and worry I'm opening myself up for constant requests for work all weekend

3 - It means I'll work 7 days a week

4 - If will mean my whole weekend is disruptive and four hours back doesn't seem enough compensation.

When I raised these points today I was told
I was being difficult. I requested my manager set up a meeting with HR and was told to stop being disruptive.

WWYD? Is this fair?

[pollymere]

I would rethink your work life balance. Take your lunch break and go home on time. Don't stay late and work evenings. Take that four hours every week (in exchange for four hours every other week, you're gaining four hours free). You'll probably end up being promoted just so your manager can be rid of you. It's not an unusual request in retail and if it can be done from home would mean working only 3.5 hours on another day. I'm sure if you say that you'll take every Weds pm off, they'll change their tune anyway!

[Jamiefraserskilt]

Ok, so if you work your lunch hour's x 5 = 5 hours unpaid per week
1 hour unpaid extra per day working late = 10
4 hours per weekend = 14
Conservative total = 14 hours unpaid per week
Plus additional hours above this where you are expected to halt your downtime and work on through
Plus the extra your colleague is doing and they are getting an additional 28+ free hours per week!
No no no no no
They need another person
From your description, it is very unlikely HR know about this.
Meet them
Tell them you are very concerned that the workload being managed effectively within working hours and whilst you are happy to work on on the occasional evening, it is every evening, every lunchtime, every weekend. Now there is talk of a formal minimum of two hours per weekend day starting at 9am and finishing when the work is done some 2+ hours later which, according to line manager, you in HR have approved. This means you are working 7 days a week which is not sustainable to a healthy work/life balance.
5 lunchtimes off is not manageable so how do HR propose you cram in the suggested four hours off in lieu of the weekend work?
Then wait
Up your sleeve is the extra time which is undefined (does this mean 6,7,8 hours in lieu? When do they propose you take this?) And your colleagues time, sick, holiday, etc.
What are HR going to do to ensure your wellbeing when you are already working an additional 50% (or whatever) on top of your contracted hours unpaid?
Your ideal outcome would be to take lunches and weekends back and finish at a more realistic time.
Make notes, leave long spaces for them to answer and confirm the meeting content back to hr afterwards, even if they say they will do it.
Do not tell your line manager the content, that is up to hr to handle.
Do not agree until you have their counter offer and have consulted.
This stinks of his management of workload which your LM is not going to want out.

[TittyGolightly]

You're supposed to have a 24 hour rest period in each 7 days, but that should not be confused with 'a day off'.

Or 48 hours in a 14 day period.

[rookiemere]

It sounds as if they actually need (or think they need)7 days a week cover.

So surely what they should be coming up with - rather than this horrible half way house - is a proper 7 day a week rota shared between the two of you, with full days off, either at the weekend, or during the week.

The reason they aren't doing this I suspect is - as both you and they know - there is more than 2 persons work per week, hence why you're working late already and through your lunch times.

What's the job market like in your area? It just doesn't sound like whatever solution is reached is going to be an easy one for you, so it might be as well to pursue other options as well as trying to make this one work for you.

[usernamealreadytaken]

I'm not an HR specialist (worked a bit in HR about 20 years ago) but please listen to those on here who are.

From what I know, if your contract specifies that your working hours are (say) 37.5 per week to be worked as the service requires, then so long as they comply with you having 48 hours break over a 14 day period they are perfectly within their rights to require you to cover the service you are employed to. Many private sector contracts are written in this way, and senior employees are often required to work over and above those basic contracted hours to deliver the service with no overtime pay or TOIL because their salary reflects that their position requires hours over and above those they are contracted for.

The "extras" you do at the moment are YOUR CHOICE and have nothing to do with your contracted hours. If you cannot fill your role without working through lunch/evenings/weekends already then if your contract specifies additional hours ...as above... then it is actually part of your job already. If your contract doesn't already cover the extra hours and it is actually a job for 1.5/2 people you have to tell them and only do the work you can actually do in your working hours and are contracted for, otherwise they'll just carry on letting you do more than one job.

Fair doesn't come in to it, I'm afraid. Legal does.

[Rosielily]

Apologies if this has already been suggested and I've missed it - call their bluff and say you'll have to leave as the proposed new working pattern is untenable. Could be the "jolt" management needs if they value your expertise so highly?

[TittyGolightly]

It’s not untenable if it’s the pattern she’s currently choosing to do though!

[HeavyLoad]

I would agree to it but start taking a lunch break and leaving at a reasonable time. There's not much your managers can do about that except be peed off.

At my previous job people would work through their lunchbreak and stay late until we got a fantastic new HR manager who made sure we took breaks and left on time. And guess what, we all still got the same amount of work done. Everyone just felt staying late was expected because everyone else was doing it but we weren't any more productive.

The same HR manager introduced mindfullness/mental wellbeing workshops so obviously understood the benefit of happy employees. Shame not everyone does.

[TittyGolightly]

The same HR manager introduced mindfullness/mental wellbeing workshops so obviously understood the benefit of happy employees. Shame not everyone does.

Spooky. I’m about to lunch a whole suite of well-being initiatives. Looking forward to my upgrade from “weasel”.

[TittyGolightly]

Launch

[Ghostontoast]

You’re not a weasel you’re a wise owl!

[rookiemere]

Yes but in this case OP is not taking breaks and working late because she has too much to do, not because of poor time management ( I assume) or because she's not mindful enough.

I'm a huge fan of the ethos that happy employees are generally hard-working ones , but it only really works as a principal if people are genuinely not overloaded.

[Ghostontoast]

Oh and these are for you too

Thanks to you and other genuine HR people for your advice.

[Boysohboys]

I had a slightly similar situation to this although it was at the request of a client. Similar to you, this was a retail account where a considerable portion of their budget was spent o weekends, hence the request for the team to be available weekends. This was before dc for me but to cut a long story short, what started off as a minimal amount of time grew over the subsequent weeks and was a big disruption to my weekends on top of a full work week, with unpaid overtime. From my experience, I wouldn't agree to it - suggest being prepared for a HR meeting where you can detail all your concerns and demonstrate why this wouldn't work for you e.g. Working extending hours already

[TheBrilliantMistake]

The 48 hours per week limit is not for any single week, it's over a 17 week period (known as the reference period) where the average cannot be 48 hours. So a company can have you work 50 hours if they want, just not all the time.
There are also exceptions to the average limit of 48 hours too, particularly in emergency services or security etc.

Daily rest
10.—(1) An adult worker is entitled to a rest period of not less than eleven consecutive hours in each 24-hour period during which he works for his employer.

(2) Subject to paragraph (3), a young worker is entitled to a rest period of not less than twelve consecutive hours in each 24-hour period during which he works for his employer.

(3) The minimum rest period provided for in paragraph (2) may be interrupted in the case of activities involving periods of work that are split up over the day or of short duration.

Weekly rest period
11.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), an adult worker is entitled to an uninterrupted rest period of not less than 24 hours in each seven-day period during which he works for his employer.

(2) If his employer so determines, an adult worker shall be entitled to either—

(a)two uninterrupted rest periods each of not less than 24 hours in each 14-day period during which he works for his employer; or
(b)one uninterrupted rest period of not less than 48 hours in each such 14-day period


You have to be very careful not to confuse the '24 hours' as a day off... it's not. It's a literal 24 hour period, so you can still be asked to work 7 days in one week, but (for instance) the Saturday might finish at noon and the Sunday will start at noon. You're still working Saturday and Sunday.

Effectively this can mean you're working on every single day, indefinitely but they won't all be 8 hour days.

[Biscuits2or3]

This is not an unusual situation to be in OP despite the outrage demonstrated by all these well meaning mumsnetters. As advised you are entitled to a consultation period before any changes can come into effect. There's probably very little you can do to prevent them changing your working hours unfortunately. With regards redundancy you'll probably find this won't apply as they've asked you to make reasonable changes. By already working weekends albeit unpaid and adhoc you've not really got any grounds to argue that the changes are unreasonable. In effect they're proposing to compensate you for time you're already having to work. This means if you say no and leave, you're resigning not being made redundant as your post still exists.
I'm not a HR expert but I am a manager whose had to go down this route with some of my employees (not the same terms). Its never a decision taken lightly and will be based on the needs of the business. Personally I wouldn't want to work for a company on the terms theyre offering but ultimately that's your decision. Seek advice from the union.

[Geordie1944]

Tell them - what is true - that what they are asking for is a new work contract, which you are happy to negotiate with them provided that HR is present at the negotiation.

If they refuse either of these conditions then simply tell them that you are happy with the contract you have now and have no wish to change it.

And refuse any further discussion.