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AIBU?

Can my employer make me do this?

168 replies

thedoginthenighttime · 29/01/2018 19:41

I'm a regular but have namechanged.

I work in a role with 'normal' office hours. I'm responsible for quite a large budget, of which a considerable amount is spent at a weekend (involves retail without being too outing).

Lately I've been having to log on and do a little work on the weekends, which is unpaid. Today my employer told me they are not happy and want to formalise weekend working.

This will be in the form of two hours each weekend day. It will be every other week alternating with another colleague.

In exchange for this they have offered four hours off during the week. There will be restrictions on when I can take this.

My concerns are:

1 - I already work lunchtimes, late nights to get my work done. The weekend workload will be an addition. I cannot foresee any day where I would be able to take back four hours.

2 - I don't see the weekend work can be completed in this two hours and worry I'm opening myself up for constant requests for work all weekend

3 - It means I'll work 7 days a week

4 - If will mean my whole weekend is disruptive and four hours back doesn't seem enough compensation.

When I raised these points today I was told
I was being difficult. I requested my manager set up a meeting with HR and was told to stop being disruptive.

WWYD? Is this fair?

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crisscrosscranky · 29/01/2018 20:58

Please post this in employment where you'll get advice from qualified people who know what they're talking about.

It's not illegal to vary the terms of a contract. They should be consulting you on the changes, reason why etc. If you don't agree the worst thing will be they'll give you notice and then start your new contract (dismiss and re-engage). If you don't accept the new contract you might have an unfair dismissal claim but it's a big might depending on lots of variables.

The fact you are working the weekends on a regular basis strengthens their case for a seven day working week. PP are wrong that hours on a weekend are worth more than a weekday, legally an hour is 60 minutes regardless.

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StopPOP · 29/01/2018 20:58

You could also ask this in the Employment Issues section if you wanted further views. Good luck

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MrsJoshDun · 29/01/2018 21:01

They can afaik give you a 30 day consultation period and change your contract. Which is what my ex employer did. I was told I could refuse the new contract but then I’d have no job.

Have no idea about the 7 day a week thing but I do know that organisations can opt out the European working time directive. The nhs does for sure and I’ve certainly worked 7 days a week for the nhs. Not every week, but lots of different times.

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grannytomine · 29/01/2018 21:13

Can't a week start on Sunday, so one week you get Sunday off and then work Monday to Saturday so 6 days. New week starts Sunday and you work Sunday to Friday which is 6 days and then Saturday off.

I'm pretty sure it used to work like that but it might have changed.

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ShellyBoobs · 29/01/2018 21:14

Seriously, OP, get some proper advice.

Don’t ask here.

You will get people making some things up and misinterpreting other things. It happens every time.

Come on people, it’s not like someone has asked colour curtains will go with their new carpet. It’s someone’s livelihood you’re playing with when you post your misinformation.

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TinaMena · 29/01/2018 21:26

Apparently HR has already been involved and agreed
Apparently or they have? Have HR told you this, or could it be your manager bullshitting you?

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Jenny17 · 29/01/2018 21:26

What does your colleague think?

Are they proposing an uplift for anti social hours?

Is the bigger issue you and your colleague could do with extra help if you are already working over your hours?

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thedoginthenighttime · 29/01/2018 21:44

I haven't spoken with HR it has all come from my line manager.

I don't think there's a bigger issue. I'm not happy about giving up two weekend mornings - I think this is massively unreasonable - as a previous poster has said in an office it's often difficult to get away early or take full lunches. I expect to work through these and work late but I therefore don't see where time could ever be taken in lieu of weekend working.

Monday morning late start isn't an option as we have early reporting to pull.

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Tipsntoes · 29/01/2018 21:46

I does sound like they could justify a business reason for changing the hours. They can't force you to do it but they can say there's no longer a job for you if you can't/won't

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thedoginthenighttime · 29/01/2018 21:47

I don't have children but DH doesn't work weekends and neither do most of my friends. To be honest a half weekday isn't much use to me. I'd rather be compensation with paid overtime but am told this isn't possible.

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thedoginthenighttime · 29/01/2018 21:52

I get paid a decent salary, am in my early thirties and basically work very hard in the week to live for the weekends as are most of my peers!

It just seems unfair to go from no compulsory weekend working/working on my terms to enforce two hours each weekend day. It will impact on my quality of life.

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Tipsntoes · 29/01/2018 21:54

I'm sure it would and I can't see anyone liking it, or that it would be easy to recruit someone to fill the role under the new hours if you decide not to stay, but the employer is entitled to change hours, with notice, if the business needs it.

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TittyGolightly · 29/01/2018 21:59

I do know that organisations can opt out the European working time directive. The nhs does for sure and I’ve certainly worked 7 days a week for the nhs. Not every week, but lots of different times.

Fucking hell.

The only bit that can be opted out of is the 48 hour working week. The rest of the WTD is mandatory.

However, many industries, including healthcare, are not covered by the WTD rest break legislation.

Please don’t advise on what you clearly don’t understand.

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Tipsntoes · 29/01/2018 22:00

Sorry, that sounds harsher than it was meant to. Ultimately if the business decides they need to change the hours they will need to make you redundant if you don't accept the change.

However, when I was in the same situation, once I let them now that I knew I'd be entitled to redundancy if I had to leave, they decided the old hours were fine.

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notapizzaeater · 29/01/2018 22:01

Have you been there longer than 2 years, ? If you don't accept the change to your contract you might be made redundant

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TittyGolightly · 29/01/2018 22:07

Have you been there longer than 2 years, ? If you don't accept the change to your contract you might be made redundant

She could also be made redundant before 2 years service.

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bunbunny · 29/01/2018 22:11

I'd also check out what would happen if you wanted to go away for a 2 week holiday... At the moment it would just be 10 days of leave for 2 weeks off but that would actually include 3 weekends- but it would start to get complicated when factoring in having to sort out every other weekend working, particularly if there is only one other person you alternate with. It could mean that it becomes very difficult to take a fortnight's holiday leaving from your house early on a saturday (or sunday) and coming back late on the saturday/sunday 2 weeks later which is fairly common.

My dsis used to work somewhere she was mainly mon-fri but there was an element of having to have somebody in at the weekend so there was a rota (but not retail so not quite the same has having to frequently work weekends). Even though there were about 4 or 5 of them that did the job so they should only have to work the weekend once or twice a month, they had a really mean and spiteful boss who used to deliberately do the rota so that if one of them took 2 weeks holiday she would do it so they didn't get their 3 weekends around 2 working weeks - so they would either have to use extra holiday to get their 3rd weekend or not have quite such a long break. Most of the time the others would have been happy to change (they were all friends) but nasty boss wouldn't let them.

Even if you don't particularly want to take fortnight-long holidays now, you might at some point, as might your colleague, particularly if he is from a different country and might want to travel home for a slightly extended period (what would happen if say he had to go to his home country for 6 weeks - would you be expected to work every week in his absence?

What happens if you need to do more than 4 hours on the weekend? What happens if you do 4 hours on Saturday - will you then have to do more time on a sunday? Will they want to formalise it to a particular timeslot - which becomes quite limiting to your weekend potentially, particularly if you have other things that you or your family usually do (say football matches with the kids or cricket practice or dance lessons that are a weekly commitment at a time that can't be changed - but might of themselves change - say as kids get older, they move through the classes and go 'to the next one' so while it's still taking a chunk out of your saturday morning, it's from 10-11 instead of 9-10.

What happens if you're sick at the weekend?

Is 2 hours a reasonable amount of time to get done what they need to get done?

Can you log all the extra time that you and your team mate are doing - is there enough over the week (particularly when you factor in overtime and holidays) to argue that actually if you're going to do this you need to bring in an additional team member. Which would help by reducing weekends required to one in 3 and giving you back some of your own time that you're currently giving them in doing lots of unpaid overtime. It sounds like this is becoming more of a business issue in so far as it didn't used to be necessary and is becoming more and more so - so is likely to become more and more necessary so it could creep to half a day each at the weekend. THey might be hoping that you will do half a day each day at the weekend and they'll be getting an extra half day from you for free on top of the other overtime, plus be able to jerk you around more if you have formal times to be working at the weekend.

How time critical is stuff that you do - might they say that your hours are say 10-12 but then get pissed off because you didn't spot something that was critical or had consequences at 5 past noon as it was outside your hours - and what if you spotted something at 5 to noon and it needed 3 hours work but you had plans for the afternoon wtih the rest of your family (visiting friends, taking a child to a party, going to the theatre, travelling somewhere)

Will they always expect you to do it from a home office or could you say work from your parents' house or a hotel if you go away?

I think if you are doing a job that is normally mon-fri 9-5, even if you end up doing lots of overtime, it is a massive switch to suddenly give up every other weekend for a couple of hours a day.

Could you suggest switching the hours even more if it would work in your favour - so say 3 hours a day at the weekend/6 hours over the course of the weekend as required/6 hours as suits you best, then 1 day off in the week but 2 days with an extra hour tacked onto those days (so 2x 9 hour days if your normal day is 8 hours). If you are likely to end up doing longer at the weekend anyway, and you are likely to be doing overtime anyway, then at least this way you are carving a day off for yourself rather than a half a day off when you would be doing the work anyway... Or even push for the 4 hours at the weekend and a full day off, with two extended days as you do it anyway, and that the missing 2 hours are for compensation for having your weekends screwed up (they're not going to offer them to you but doesn't mean that you can't negotiate - bet your boss is not going to be giving his weekends up and if he does, he will be much better off for it than you).

Do you know what senior managers who are at a similar level to you do when doing weekend working when it's not been a normal thing for them - do they get a nice juicy on call bonus or double hours off in lieu or anything convenient that you can use to make things better for you?

What will happen if there's a problem? Will senior managers also be working or on call so that you can raise problems with them?

Sorry, lots of questions but no answers.

And will echo what a previous poster said - definitely worth checking out your home insurance to see if you have legal cover that could help you as a free and usually fairly speedy starting point!

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Moanaohnana · 29/01/2018 22:14

Take your 4 hours during the week. That's Friday afternoon off, say. Stop working through your lunches, too. If you can't do the job in the hours, they need to hire more people or lower their expectations.

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3EyedRaven · 29/01/2018 22:14

I agree, get professional advice, and speak to HR yourself, you do t need their permission to do so, so whatever they think about you speaking to them is irrelevant.
I think is weird they don’t want you to speak to HR

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TittyGolightly · 29/01/2018 22:21

If their HR follows the business partner model then staff should be dealing with their managers, and managers with HR.

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ToadsforJustice · 29/01/2018 22:26

An employer cannot unilaterally change an employees terms and conditions on a contract. The employee may agree with the changes. If the employee disagrees, the employer must consider consultation and notice according to latest employment legislation.

They are trying it on.

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TittyGolightly · 29/01/2018 22:30

Consultation doesn’t have to mean the plan changes. And it can be very informal if few employees are involved.

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thedoginthenighttime · 29/01/2018 22:42

Bun...

It's a good point about holiday, I'm not sure as of yet but it's an issue to raise.

They want to give an allocated slot eg 9-11 both days. Plus extra on top if required. So as you say if there's an issue could be hours working.

My bosses have the habit of asking questions about trivial things over a weekend and expecting an immediate answer. Am worried that if they know I'm now working, they'll take the piss even more. Most of their questions could wait for Monday.

No other head office staff work weekends. Senior managers etc don't work them. Call centre etc obviously do but they're a totally separate entity. I can work from home but still it is hugely disruptive to my weekend.

My job is stressful. I'm worried how I'll cope potentially with 12 days straight and no full day to switch off.

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Bellamuerte · 29/01/2018 22:45

YANBU. I wouldn't be happy about this at all and would say no. Who cares if they think you're disruptive - you're entitled to refuse. Stop doing unpaid work at weekends and tell them you're not signing up for regular weekend hours. Force them to make you redundant if necessary.

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SevenShades · 29/01/2018 23:18

I have been exactly here op! I worked a Monday to Friday 9 - 5 and then suddenly was expected to work 4 hours at the weekend for 2 hours early leave on a Thursday and Friday they also cut my lunch from 60 mins to 30 per day at the same time. So I actually lost 2 and a half hours per week there as well. The weekend was work was expected to be completed and it often took 6/7 hours per weekend, oh and included Christmas Day and New Year’s Day. Small company with no HR to turn to.
I left.

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