Comments Made By Older People About Children

[OldMcDonald]

I volunteer in a couple of roles where I come into contact with primary school children during school hours. Many of the other volunteers are retired. I'm in my thirties.

I frequently find myself raising an eyebrow at comments made by other volunteers relating to race or disability that it wouldn't cross my mind to think let alone say. This is privately and not to the children or anything. For example commenting on how many black faces there were and how that's a big change from how it used to be (matter of factly not in a tone that suggests it's a negative thing) or hypothesising on what medical condition might be behind mobility or speech issues.

I appreciate that they most likely didn't grow up in a time and place where diversity was common and certainly not one where it was celebrated but AIBU to be surprised that a more modern view point hasn't rubbed off on them? Also AIBU to think that if they are thinking these things, they shouldn't be saying them out loud? Finally AIBU to be petrified of turning into one of them in 30 or 40 years time, possibly not in relation to the same issues, but something new?

You are far too p c. They are simply commenting on things that have changed.

I think it's quite odd barely noticing people's skin colour/hair colour /whatever. Does that mean if you think of them, you don't remember what they look like? A blur in your mind of someone's face? To me, probably wrongly, when people say this, I hear it as " of course I noticed they were black/asian/whatever, because I'm not 100% comfortable with people who look different to me, I say stuff like this to come across as pc, just in case anyone notices the uncomfortableness "

I think you just posted all that to get MN singing your praises and giving you a pat on the back!!

I think it's great that there are more people with different skin colours (because that's really the only difference) than there was 10 years ago where I live. Small SW town. For years, the lack of diversity here was 'academically' attributed to racism, however, the reality was that 'people with a non-white complexion' didn't come here. Those that have come feel comfortable and welcomed enough to stay,

It's an evident fact, not a problem - such a shame I fear mentioning it because someone like OP might accuse me of being 'racist'.

I think you're being so PC as to actively be un-PC!

20 years ago having a conversation about skin colour could have been interpreted as racist - as people could view that as seeing the skin rather than the person.

These days I don't think anyone has such misgivings except you OP - there is widespread acceptance that skin colour is just one facet amongst many of someone, same as my lack of height is one facet of me, and observing someone's skin colour doesn't mean you don't see the person underneath.

By feeling uncomfortable you're almost implying skin colour can be someone to be ashamed of and therefore needs to be kept hush hush...

By feeling uncomfortable you're almost implying skin colour can be someone to be ashamed of and therefore needs to be kept hush hush.

This ! Summed up exactly what I was feeling but couldn't get into words.

I hate it when people say they 'don't see colour' like its a good thing.
Kinda what you are doing there OP.
Its not positive to be 'colour blind' because it implies that diversity is negative and something to be airbrushed away.

That reminds me of a time when I had a contract in a very PC public sector organisation with diverse values blah blah blah. I made a comment that there were very few women in management positions and that the only black people in the office were the cleaners (this was London about 10 years so obviously very diverse). A middle class, middle aged, white man told me I was racist for noticing the skin colour of people!

Stealth, I think that would have sounded racist to me, only mentioning that the girl was black but not adding that you liked that fact.

I'm in my early 50s. When I went to a comp in the late 70s/early 80s, there were only white kids in school. When I taught at a comp in a different area from 2001-2006, there were 2 mixed heritage kids, and 2 Bulgarians, so not much had changed. Now, I expect it's totally different. I don't think it's racist to comment that there is more diversity than when I was growing up, because it is true. There are more TV channels and cars as well. You wouldn't worry about comments on that, so why do so on the fact that we are a more ethnically diverse country than we were 35 years ago?

For example commenting on how many black faces there were and how that's a big change from how it used to be (matter of factly not in a tone that suggests it's a negative thing)

My parents spent about 65-70 years of their life living in a country and a city that was almost 100 percent white and irish and utterly familiar to them. Then things changed and the face of their city changed completely. They never saw it as a negative at all but would you expect them not to comment on it?

There are many more black faces in schools these days. Many more Asian children. There are quite a few more foreign white faces in schools too.There are MANY more obese children in schools these days. There are many more openly gay teachers in schools than there used to be. There are tons more children with allergies. The skirts for school uniforms seem a lot shorter these days. Very few children walk to school these days.
Most of the above applies to parents too.

There, just an observation ( not full ) from when I was at school.
I'm 30.

yeah that's exactly where confusion comes from for people over about 45
20 years ago having a conversation about skin colour could have been interpreted as racist - as people could view that as seeing the skin rather than the person
So if you grew up/were in your 20s at that time (like me), it was drummed into you not to mention skin colour or use the word 'black' instead of 'Carribean' or 'African'. No wonder some people have no clue what's right and feel awkward describing someone just by their skin colour. I'd love to know genuinely whether some black people do mind this, or not anymore?
Someone making a point that a friend should have mentioned she LIKED the black girl just proves my point (i.e. it shouldn't be necessarily by current standards) - maybe some older people don't understand what the black people themselves prefer.

YABU. And yes we are most likely to turn into our generation's version of these people in our time.

I find myself commenting on how much things cost nowadays and how 'new-fangled' technology is hard to grasp and I am only 52!

However, they are not being unpleasant about it, according to you, so let's hope my generation of 'oldies in waiting' manage to do that too!

I appreciate that they most likely didn't grow up in a time and place where diversity was common and certainly not one where it was celebrated

Well there you are then. They comment on the relatively recent levels of diversity because to them it seems like it's happened overnight. I've noticed a huge difference compared to how it was in my childhood and right up to my thirties, and I'm not anywhere near my sixties yet so if it's a source of amazement and fascination to me, I imagine it's off the scale for them.

AIBU to be surprised that a more modern view point hasn't rubbed off on them?

You said yourself they didn't seem judgmental or negative. I'd take that as evidence that a modern viewpoint has rubbed off on them to some degree.

Also AIBU to think that if they are thinking these things, they shouldn't be saying them out loud?

Maybe not. It would might be advisable to be a bit more subtle about it. Especially when there are smug, condescending, ears-on-elastic people just willing them to trip up and confirm themselves as bigoted, racist, old person Brexiteers.

or hypothesising on what medical condition might be behind mobility or speech issues.

When those volunteers were at school many of those children with disabilities or additional needs would not even have survived infancy, never mind been in mainstream education. Inclusion now is a relatively recent thing.

I think there has been such a boom in the numbers of children in mainstream school with developmental delays, possibly due to being born very prematurely and surviving, or being born with genetic conditions and syndromes that can be treated to have much better survival rates now whereas two or three generations ago they would not have made it that far.

There is a huge rise in the number of children (and adults for that matter) being diagnosed with ASD and ADHD, and such a huge drive to create awareness and acceptance of it that you can hardly blame them for being interested and attuned. That's the thing about awareness campaigns. They make people more aware.

It's only natural that people will want to show that they are enlightened and sensitive to the signs and the needs of children with various conditions, and the possible reasons for them. If they are doing that rather than just putting everyone into those old school boxes of spastic, retarded, mongol, backward, naughty, weird etc., that were used when they were growing up then they very much HAVE allowed a modern viewpoint to rub off on them.

Hypothesising on someone's medical condition just seems intrusive. Take them at face value/deal with the issues they have. What does it matter what actual label they have?

I have a sneaking suspicion that you trying to tell us that they speculate about children from Muslim families having disabilities caused by genetic defects as a result of several generations first cousin marriage. Am I right?

Finally AIBU to be petrified of turning into one of them in 30 or 40 years time, possibly not in relation to the same issues, but something new?

It will happen as surely as the earth keeps turning. There is little point in being petrified about the inevitable. When it's your turn to do it you won't realise or accept that you are doing it, but the younger people around you will and they'll be rolling their eyes and starting threads about you.

AIBU to be petrified of turning into one of them in 30 or 40 years time, possibly not in relation to the same issues, but something new?

Yes. YABU

Because ageism is also wrong, and you have already internalised it.

You can choose to avoid unpleasant stereotypes ay any age

(You could have made this thread without referring to age at all - because you will find young people with far more entrenched views that what you describe here).

Ah - the illiberalism of liberalism. (Or, to be entirely fair, of a certain section of self styled "right on" liberals). "My view is the right view and anyone else who thinks differently is wrong and a bigot." Which, ironically, is the very definition of bigotry....

In this case, they haven't done anything wrong. They've passed comment, not obviously with malicious intent.

My mum is elderly, and seems to have speed either a "state the bleeding obvious" or a " see it , say it" policy.
It is cringy at best, and makes her sound clumsy and lacking in perception, and unable to put herself in others shoes.
I don't know what the answer is.

Domani I hope it didn't sound racist, it was part of an animated conversation where we both speaking ten words a second and I was very positive about the school with the black head girl, which did seem a lovely, happy, nurturing place so I would hope it was seen as another good thing about the school. We live in a naice area but I can remember the first time dd saw a black face - she was about 2 and wouldn't stop staring so I would like her to grow up with a bit more diversity in herr life trying not to sound a hippocrit as I am considering private schools

Hypothesising on someone's medical condition just seems intrusive. Take them at face value/deal with the issues they have. What does it matter what actual label they have?

I suppose understanding the root cause can help with how to deal with the symptoms?

I find it concerning if people really cannot tell the difference between an observation that schools are more diverse than they used to be and a racist or disablist remark.

Or who see no irony in 'raising an eyebrow' at people noticing race or disability while at the same time passing comment on their age.

What would you have said, op if they had referred to any of those children as 'one of them?' Please think about it.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with hypothesising someone's medical condition but I will accept that it's probably better to do that to try to support them than just making a blanket statement 'that child is naughty' or a shocking one I heard 'that child is so out of control her mum's gone back to work to avoid her, you wonder why people have children if they're just going to ignore them.' The latter statement was said at a coffee morning. I didn't meet with those mums again.

yeah that's exactly where confusion comes from for people over about 45

I am 50 and not in the least bit confused. Why should I be? I can read,watch tv, listen to the radio, ask questions and talk to people.

That 'oh its all so confusing!' is nonsense. You have to make an effort to stay uninformed.

I'm not anywhere near my sixties yet so if it's a source of amazement and fascination to me, I imagine it's off the scale for them

yeah that's exactly where confusion comes from for people over about 45

Oh give me strength. This is not difficult stuff. Racists come in all shapes, sizes and ages.

I didn't suddenly have a brain trainsplant at 40 which rendered me stupid and insensitive and racist. Terms change, I try to use the terminology which the group being described prefers as far as I can. I assume you Young Folks do the same. My children certainly do, as does my 80 yr old mother.

The ageism on here is quite staggering at times.