to want to buy a new (second hand) car rather than lease a new car

[Hotfootit]

We have two cars. Our second car is breaking down and the MOT is due very soon. Our first (family) car has been in the garage for 6 weeks and we have tried to manage with one car. We can just about do it, but it's a real performance and we've had ask for lifts to out of school activities (not being a CF as we've given most of these friends reciprocal lifts at one time or another).

DH wants to look into leasing a new car (is it PCP?). I think I would rather buy second hand and then we will will own the car (might have to buy with a bit finance, we're not sure yet). We've had what is now our second car for 12 years - we bought it second hand and it was our only car for 9 years, and was the first car either of us had ever owned - so we're not into changing cars regularly. What are the benefits of a leased car?

[Firesuit]

Sorry, cut myself off. PCH outlay was equivalent to 45% of new price. Can't remember if I used list or discounted price for new price.

[Firesuit]

When I was looking at PCH prices, there was always an initial payment equivalent of at least 3 times the monthly payment, so I have a slight worry that the people quoting monthly payments are the ones who fall for the adverts saying you can drive a new Mercedes for £199 a month. (The adverts where you need a magnifying glass to read the print that says you also have to pay 15K up front, in addition to the monthly payments.)

[tunnelBear]

Audi A8 or BMW 735i were the two we narrowed it down to.

I know they're not average cars but my point still stands. The only way the OP can know is to do a little maths.

The upfront payment is minimal for both vehicles. 3 year lease was nearly 20% less than depreciation and that's before any costs of ownership.

[Nettletheelf]

So you think that people making questionable financial decisions should be encouraged and congratulated? Better that than forming an opinion that they have been a bit stupid, right?

Nevertheless, if somebody wants to make a daft financial decision then, as I stated in my post, good luck to them.

[Sunshinegirl82]

I think you've sort of proved my point.

I can see that you might think PCP has downsides that you may want to draw attention to it suggesting anyone who enters into one is making a daft financial decision and being stupid is offensive and wrong.

I think that every option has merit and that there are pros and cons to each. I wouldn't buy a second hand car using a loan for a number of reasons that mean it doesn't work for me but I don't think someone who chooses to do so is daft or stupid.

Each individual needs to review their own position and priorities and make the best decision for them personally. There is no one correct answer for everyone and I don't think it's helpful to suggest there is.

[Nettletheelf]

What is your point, that you claim to have proved?

That nobody should criticise anybody else's choices or form a negative opinion of anybody else's thought processes?

Good luck with making that one stick!

[Nettletheelf]

And, incidentally, I didn't "suggest...that there is one correct answer for everyone". Simply that some people have made poor choices. Is that OK with you?

[Sunshinegirl82]

That it's not correct to label an entire group of people stupid for making a decision that you wouldn't make.

People have different personal circumstances and priorities, it simply isn't possible to make a judgement on the right way for everyone to do something. It will vary by circumstance. For some people PCP/leading is a sensible financial option. It might be an option where you consider the downsides outweigh the positives but that doesn't mean everyone who decides it's the right option for them is stupid.

[IVFNewbie]

PCP is a mug's game.

[BeyondThePage]

PCP is a mug's game

No, it is really not.

www.parkers.co.uk/car-finance/advice/2016/top-cars-that-are-cheaper-to-buy-on-pcp-than-paying-cash/

[19lottie82]

Lol @ IVFNewbie........ have you read the full thread? You sound quite ignorant!

[Nettletheelf]

For the third time. I did not say that everybody who chooses a PCP scheme is stupid.

You're very touchy on this subject, aren't you? Can't you cope if everybody isn't congratulating you on your choices, as well as congratulating everybody else who did the same thing, irrespective of circumstances?

[Sunshinegirl82]

Nettle, you made a comment that suggested people who opted for PCP were making a stupid choice. I said that wasn't really fair. Then you said you didn't say that, then you said you should be able to say what you want because you should be able to criticise people making stupid choices. Now you're suggesting I'm saying everyone using PCP should be congratulated irrespective of the circumstances. I'm not saying anything of the sort and I'm not really sure why you think I am.

My point, is, always has been and remains, that PCP, leasing, buying for cash, buying with the aid of a loan etc are all valid options each with its own positives and negatives. No choice is a good choice or a stupid choice in isolation. Everyone has to evaluate their own position and weigh up the options and make the best choice for them. I don't think it's necessary to label a whole group of people stupid for making a particular choice because without knowing the individual circumstances of each person it's impossible to know if the choice is good, bad or indifferent.

[SpinnerDryer]

My car is 10 years old.
Car tax is £220 a year.
M.O.Ts are £50
Plus work needed for M.O.T. £100
Service £120
Insurance is £20 a month.

A new Kia has a 7 year warranty.
No M.O.T for 3 years.
Insurance is cheaper.
Road tax about £20 a year.
Probably £100 a month for PCP
Plus a final payment after 4 years of £3000, to keep the car.
(Which I could save £62.50, now in an account every month, so I am able to pay it off at the end of year 4)

I think I would prefer the PCP car.

[safariboot]

As I think I said but it seems to get ignored, just keep in mind that the warranty doesn't cover all repairs. Clutch failure in particular often won't be covered and that can be over £1000 to replace, it's very hard to prove it didn't wear out because of your driving style. There may be other exclusions too - as always, read the small print.

[Nettletheelf]

Actually, I said that it was reasonable to form a view that people making questionable financial choices are a bit stupid. How is that controversial?

I reserve the right to describe anybody's ill-advised choices as "a bit stupid". Including the people I have met who are spending £350 a month on payments for a car they will never own and can't really afford, and who simultaneously complain about not being able to afford pension contributions.

[Middleoftheroad]

my top spec brand new Astra is £166 for two years inc tax/mot. lease.

When I ran the numbers the second hand cars couldn't compete.

[Delatron]

Last car was a skoda, we bought about 5 years ago for 13k. Had endless problems with timing chain, had the entire engine replaced (£2.5k). I reckon we spent about .4K on it. Plus it kept breaking down so I was never confident it would ever get us anywhere. When the engine went again we sold as seen last year for £2k. If it had been in ok nick it would have been worth £6/7k
I know we were unlucky but buying a car with the depreciation and repairs cost us a fortune.

We lease now and I am so pleased not to worry about breakdowns/services. I don't ever want to own a car again. We have a lovely VW Tiguan. Nothing to do with shiny new car status symbol but I want a reliable, safe car. I don't want an old car that may breakdown.

[Middleoftheroad]

I agree @Delatron. My basic 10 year old Picasso cost us about a grand in repairs last year . When I add up the MOT tax and other repairs the new leased Astra wins hands down price wise. Plus it hairs aircon heated seats and all kinds of tech we've never had before.

[Sunshinegirl82]

Is the questionable financial choice entering into a PCP arrangement?

[wasonthelist]

Audi A8 or BMW 735i were the two we narrowed it down to.

Hardly a mainstream choice and I'm not surprised the lease was less than depreciation - those things lose value faster than almost anything!

Give us a laugh and post the monthly lease costs :)

[wasonthelist]

Probably £100 a month for PCP
Plus a final payment after 4 years of £3000, to keep the car.
(Which I could save £62.50, now in an account every month, so I am able to pay it off at the end of year 4)

I think I would prefer the PCP car.
How much is the deposit?

[wasonthelist]

my top spec brand new Astra is £166 for two years inc tax/mot. lease.

It doesn't need an MOT. How much was the deposit/upfront payment?

[wasonthelist]

PCP is a mug's game

No, it is really not.

www.parkers.co.uk/car-finance/advice/2016/top-cars-that-are-cheaper-to-buy-on-pcp-than-paying-cash/

That comparison is fair enough - but it compares the finance costs with paying the list price in cash. Pretty much no-one ever pays the list prices unless the car is a new or rare model.

[museumum]

Brand new cars can be EXTREMELY fuel efficient - we get so many miles to the gallon in ours it was definitely worth it (along with no mot and lowest road tax).