To write a strongly worded letter to my stepdad's kids?

[lelapaletute]

So this is a long story, but the skinny version is this:

My mum has lifelong physical and mental health problems and has a difficult marriage with my stepfather.

My stepfather jointly owns a house with his first wife with whom he has 4 now adult children. He continued to pay off the mortgage for her after they divorced, and lived with my mum in the house she owned. They ran into serious financial difficulties after both of them were unable to find work. It nearly ended the marriage. My mum eventually sold the house, paid off their debts and bought another house outright in a cheaper part of the country.y stepdad came with her after much debate,but this was on the condition he make some attempt to leverage the asset he owned within the ex wife's house, via sale or equity release (he was very reluctant to do this, he has always been very deferential to ex wife which has caused a lot of the problems in his and DM's marriage).

When stepfather made approaches to his ex, two of his DC told him they would never speak to him again if he 'forced' their mum to sell or release equity. She refused to consider it, so to preserve his relationship with DCs DSF dropped it. His and my mother's marriage never really recovered from this.

Fast forward to now - DSF has had a stroke and is substantially impaired. My mother is now his full time carer. Neither of them work so there only income is from early released pensions (small). They are not entitled to claim any benefits due to my dad's supposed 'asset' (half his ex wife's house) which he can neither access nor relieve himself of in order to claim benefits as this would constitute voluntary deprivation of capital. They have sought legal advice and apparently there is no way the ex can be forced to sell, share the property with DSF, or release equity to him.

My mother is going under with the stress of providing him with 24 hour intimate care, has no money to pay for respite care, and is talking about suicide. Her only leveragable asset is the home they live in, which she does not want to touch as she worries she will need it to pay for her own elderly care in due course. My sister and I are giving her what support we can, but we both have little money, young families and live at the other end of the country.

WIBU to write to my DSF's children and ask them to reconsider their stance on their mother's house and ask her to reconsider equity release given these changed circumstances? At the moment it seems like my sister and I are being expected to pay for their father's care in order to protect their inheritance, and it galls me enormously.

If the ex won't budge, would I be unreasonable to encourage her to divorce my DSF? I know this may seem incredibly harsh given how ill he is, but she simply can't afford to be married to him any more, she will either kill herself or lose everything she has trying to get him adequate respite care.

If she divorced him, his children would have to accept responsibility for caring for him, and hopefully their mum would then relent and release his money from their house so he can get the care he needs. This will never happen as long as the only people making sacrifices are my mum, my sister and me.

So AIBU to expect his kids to step up?

[lelapaletute]

Oh and hey had the financial assessment done yesterday - this was when they were told they would not be given any assistance due to DSF's 'asset'.

[StillDrivingMeBonkers]

He can go to court to force the sale, whether he would or not is another matter.

[lelapaletute]

Hi KK - thanks for you and others good suggestions - all this has been set in train - if PIP and carers allowance is awarded they will probably have enough to survive on. But that will take months to sort out,esp as my stepdad keeps having falls and going back into hospital so heir assessment keeps getting delayed. And if he is only awarded lower rate PIP, mum can't get CA and hey won't have enough money to get by. Mum won't get a carers assessment because she says any assistance they award her will also be means tested and she can't afford it so what's the point (not sure that's true?)

Also interested re what people say about he house issue being down to my DSF -i have the problem of only getting my DM's version of events, from 5 hours away, and she is prone to catastrophising - it's part of her condition.

[Kaffiene]

Second what several PP have said. Aside from the house issue they absolutely are eligible for benefits and help with care. They need to put in a claim for PIP for his disability. They also need to contact the social work department and ask for a disability social work to make a health assessment for you DSF and a carers assessment for your DM. I am surprised that all of this hasn't been suggested and offered by the stroke ward. When my DF had his strokes the hospital social work department started all of these processes for us. Does he has daily living aids such as wheelchair, commode etc. If so a home assessment must have been made at some point.
Once the health assessment has been made then a financial assessment is done to determine how the care will be paid for. I am not sure the house will be taken into account as a family member still lives in it.
I get the feeling you aren't being told the whole story.

[lelapaletute]

Re how I feel about him I think he is probably a decent bloke and I'm sorry for him. But he is bad for my mother and has been for some time (she's no angel herself I would add) and to be frank my only interest in the whole business is trying to keep her alive, ideally without beggaring myself in the process.

I bailed them out to a serious amount of money last time they were in real difficulty, and DSF would have been happy for that arrangement to continue indefinitely - it was only when my OH put his foot down and told them they had to sort it out if they wanted any more money that they finally sold up and moved to a home they could afford outright.

Back then I had a good job and no commitments. Now I'm on maternity leave and have a little baby and a house move to accommodate - there is very little slack in my chain both financially and emotionally. I need to focus entirely on what's best for my mum - it's up to his children to do the same for their dad. We are in the same situation - my parents divorced when I was 2 and my father was resident parent. I don't see why they should be less invested in their parent's wellbeing than I am in mine!

[lelapaletute]

Re the circumstances of stepfather's first divorce, his ex wife had an affair and threw him out so she could move her lover in. By all accounts DSF was devastated as he really loved her and did whatever she wanted in the divorce proceedings. Their 'understanding' (nothing legal) was that they would continue to jointly own the house rather than sell and divide up assets and he would continue to pay the mortgage in full so as to provide a home for his children (and by default the 5th child she was pregnant with by other man). I think this was with a view to him wanting to retain an interest in the property so as to have something to leave his children when he dies. They preferred this to entering into a formal child support arrangement (neither of them were wealthy and wanted to avoid lawyers). This was back in the late 70s so not sure how it would have been likely to fall had they done things differently. The EXW never sought any maintenance etc from the lover for her 5th child when he left her - she didn't need to as my DSF was funding their home entirely, also doing 'husband-y' things like DIY, picking up and dropping off (her, not the kids!), and generally at her beck and call. He continued to see a lot of his kids until he was made redundant and then his redundancy pay ran out and he stopped paying the mortgage once my mum found out about the loans he'd taken out to pay it - by that point none of his kids had lived in the property for several years and his EXW was working. Once he had no more money his relationship with his kids deteriorated.

[LittleMissCantbebothered]

Go and get legal advice. You step father needs to push through an Order for Sale to force the sake of the property. It is possible and is relatively easy to do.

[shouldwestayorshouldwego]

Ultimately though it is not about money it is about their wellbeing. She might need to say that she can't cope due to her own health and make it clear that he is being made homeless. I imagine that the first family will not be happy though.

[shouldwestayorshouldwego]

Have they had a social services assessment? I would contact them with your concerns as both sound vulnerable. If he can be placed into care then social services are quite efficient at extracting funds and can place a charge against his house to be paid when the ex wife dies/sells. You would need advice about whether they would also have a claim on your mother's house although she would be allowed to live there until she needed care herself. If they were tenants in common then they generally only place the charge against the patient's half so I think her house would probably be safe.

[emmyrose2000]

It doesn't sound as though this is a tenable financial or emotional situation for your mother.

Wishing they'd get divorced seems like quite a natural reaction, but getting her/them to go through with it will be nigh on impossible if she's not willing to do so.

When stepfather made approaches to his ex, two of his DC told him they would never speak to him again if he 'forced' their mum to sell or release equity. She refused to consider it, so to preserve his relationship with DCs DSF dropped it

I can see the ex-wife and step siblings' POV in this. Your stepfather is her ex. She's not responsible for his (financial) situation now. If I was one of the kids I'd be pissed off too if someone expected my mother to sell her home and/or go into debt herself to facilitate my father and his new wife's life. If she's not legally required to release equity there's not much you can do. If she CAN be legally forced to, then be prepared for the fall out. But it's not going to magically force his kids to take on his care.

[GreatFuckability]

I have no idea about the whole house sale thing, but he absolutely can claim benefits. PIP is non-means tested meaning you can be a millionaire and still be eligible. If he is awarded this, your mother should be able to claim carers allowance which is also not means tested.

[Windytwigs]

Sounds like a very different situation, but as pp said, without knowing the situation under which SF left his first wife and kids (4!) it's difficult to know what is fair. I don't think you'll get anything out of them if you write. Whatever the circumstances were under which SF continued to pay the mortgage, it sounds as if he had well and truly moved on from his first family, and as such, I don't think they'll want to liquidate assets to pay for his care. I'd be inclined to agree.

[Sprinklestar]

But that cuts both ways. They're married so half of the other house also belongs to SF and DM (the first half being owned by the first wife).

[Hotheadwheresthecoldbath]

Trouble is they are married so half her house is his too .

[Lynnm63]

If he won't arrange to get his half of the house off his XW then your dm should divorce him for real. Let his kids look after him if their worried about their mum and their inheritance. Your mum has already bailed him out once.
You say they don't love each other well she has no obligation to bail him out again imo.

[BeepBeepMOVE]

Did stepfather pay maintenance for the 4 children? Or was the mortgage instead of that?

[Ellisandra]

Just a further comment on equity release...
IIRC, the amount repayable on these types of releases very quickly rolls up.

It's not as simple as his XW agreeing he can do equity release on "his half" - it has to be a joint application.

www.homeequityloans.co.uk/use-half-of-equity-in-jointly-owned-property.html

So over the years, the amount due to be repaid could equal the value of the house. So she wouldn't just be letting him have his "half" - she'd possibly be just giving her XW the equity in the house that she might want for her care later in life. So basically - expecting an XW to do more than his actual wife wants to!

The fairest thing would be to sell up to release cash. BUT - as I said above, the XW having the house (even with him paying the mortgage) might have been a perfectly fair settlement, even if informal.

[Willyoujustbequiet]

I don't think you've got the full story.

But regardless his children can't be forced to care for him.

[Ellisandra]

With regards to secretly paying paying "her" mortgage... are you sure it wasn't still a joint mortgage? He's still an arse for lying about it and doing it on credit, but he would have been liable for the mortgage, to the lender.

I'm looking from the other side here... 4 kids, and clearly your SF isn't that young - so more likely that his XW's earning capacity was compromised for child rearing. Him continuing to pay the mortgage may have been a perfectly fair agreement.

It's always useful to know both sides. If the kids stayed with her after divorce, and they agreed he would pay the mortgage, and she made no claim on his pension and in lieu kept the house - even informally - then morally (if not legally!) he might not be entitled to much.

It puts your mother in a shit position, but with regards to how he has made her feel second to the XW and your general tone suggesting you're not keen on him, I am rather biased towards thinking that your mother's husband is more at fault here than the XW!

[JustKeepDancing]

It sounds like a rather complicated legal situation, but just wanted to say - they'd be worth applying for Personal Independence Payments or Attendance Allowance (if +65) and the subsequent Carers Allowance element, council tax discounts etc that come after it. They absolutely are entitled to claim this regardless of the asset situation, they are not means tested, and so anyone eligible can apply. If they've been told they can't access any benefits at all because of the financial complications then whoever gave that information was incorrect. They can be tricky forms though, most CABs and Age UKs can give help filling them in.

[quizqueen]

People need to sort out their finances BEFORE they marry for a second time. One reason I will never marry again is I want to protect my assets for my kids.

[Ellisandra]

I must stress again that I'm an internet random here, not a lawyer
But I did do a Graduate Diploma in Law 10 years ago, and have ideas buzzing round my head from that

Firstly - make sure they didn't agree something about not selling in the divorce (though I think he could anyway apply to vary it - no idea if that's likely to be successful though, I think not so likely)

If not - they may simply be co-owners.

In which case I think what he needs is an application under Section 14 of TOLATA (you can google with that acronym) to ask the court to give an order for sale. I've no idea if they can order agreement for equity release. I think he'd be expected to go to mediation first, too. Court would look at all circumstances - a big one is dependent children which doesn't apply.

Honestly though - even if Section 14 TOLATA application can be made, doesn't sound like he will. He doesn't need to, whilst your mum is looking after him.

I'm all for "in sickness and I'm hearth" - but not if a divorce is merited regardless of health.

[CouldntMakeThisShitUp]

she CAN be forced to sell.....your SF just didn't want to do it - probably wanted it all to go to his dc so he could cocklodge for free.