AIBU to think women should be able to access abortion clinics without intimidation and harassment?

[betty62]

I live in Ealing, London and there is a Marie Stopes clinic nearby. Every day there is a' vigil' of anti-abortionists outside with pictures of embryos, plastic foetuses, religious texts and inaccurate leaflets which tell the women things such as they are more likely to get breast cancer if they have an abortion and that they are more likely to abuse any other children that they have or will have in the future. Some of the vigilers stand at the entrance to the clinic trying to force their leaflets on the clinic users, or follow them down the road when they leave, calling them 'mum' . Regardless of whether someone agrees with abortion or not, I don't think the women who are trying to access a legal service should be subject to intimidation and harassment. If you agree, and live or work in Ealing, please sign this petition that is asking the council to implement a buffer zone directly outside of the clinic.

ealing.cmis.uk.com/ealing/ePetitions/tabid/96/ID/38/This-petition-calls-for-Ealing-Council-to-end-the-persistent-presence-of-the-anti-abortion-vigil-outside-the-Marie-Stopes-Reproductive-Centre-on-Mattock-Lane-Ealing.aspx

[NatashaGurdin]

BouncyHedgehog

No one has been unkind. It is a fact that only biological women get pregnant and therefore might need an abortion, the social construct of gender identity is nothing to do with it.

[AntiopeofThemyscira]

The post which originally mentioned trans men was perfectly understandable and mentioned them only in passing

No it didn't. It was the focus of the whole post. Why don't you read it again.

[PencilsInSpace]

Looks like I signed the national one a while back. There needs to be a petiton on the govt. site for this to be properly taken seriously.

for anyone who's had to walk past these arseholes.

[SoNouveau]

Bouncyhedgehog, no one has been unkind, men cannot get pregnant.
The original post mentioned trans men suffering 'dysphoria' because of this, not suffering because the protesters targeted them.

[MsSusanStoHelit]

Done. Those people are disgusting.

[PencilsInSpace]

Is there a transman who has posted and is trying to make it all about them? Can't be arsed to look back. If there is, please pack it in and stop trying to make this all about you.

If you have ever had, or feared, an unwanted / unsupportable pregnancy then you are female and you are a woman. That's just what those words mean. Unless we have words for the group of people who have the capacity to become pregnant then we are all fucked, including you.

[VestalVirgin]

The post which I referred to mentioned "women and men", not "women and transmen".

Transmen are a subset of women, thus specifically mention them is like talking about "humans and children". But mentioning "men" is wholly incorrect.

I agree with transmen and other non-women that they need separate spaces away from women's spaces, as transmen often take testosterone which makes them very different from other women, but they still are adult human females, i.e. women. (And those who can need abortions cannot have made many changes to their bodies, as a testosterone overdose often damages the female reproductive organs)

It is very, very, very silly to talk about "men" (meaning transmen) when it comes to periods, pregnancy and abortions.

The only possible benefit a woman can derive from transing herself is to pass as male and thus gain more safety and financial advantages. Making a big noise about "men" needing abortions, too, makes it harder for women who transed to male to fly under the patriarchal radar, and renders transing completely pointless. (Especially for women with no body dysphoria, who do not want surgery, and who are, long-term, the only group of transmen who can still get pregnant.)

If you don't want to alleviate body dysphoria and happily throw away the opportunity to gain male privilege, why the fuck are you doing it?

[ReesesPeanutButterCups]

But it's a peaceful protest.

Like fuck it is. It is harassment, trying to guilt women into doing what YOU believe is right for them. A peaceful protest is a march in a neutral place. Pushing signs, leaflets and photos into the faces of vulnerable women at a vulnerable time is NOT peaceful.

What if you were on your way to get a blood transfusion or even to give blood and a Jehovah's Witness started chanting outside the building or pushing a sign in your face saying you were going to hell? Would you consider this acceptable?

Just because these people are often Christians it doesn't give them the right to intimidate anyone. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they like. What they don't have is the right to force that belief upon others, especially when they are vulnerable.

I say this as a Christian. I actually think it's incredibly unchristian to behave like this. We are called to love each other and not to judge. Those are two of the Ten Commandments, the very rules we are called to live by. This behaviour is neither of these things.

[FairfaxAikman]

Our local abortion clinic also incorporates sexual health and family planning clinics.
Women who are not going for a termination have been targeted and abused (as has my DH, who does IT for the health board and attends there regularly for work).

Anyone who is anti-abortion should talk to people who nursed in the 50s, as my grandmother did.
The reality of prohibition is back street abortions - legalisation is not a moral issue, it's a medical one.

[WeirdAndPissedOff]

Signed. It's sad to see that this hapoens in the UK too.
As others have said, there's a huge difference between a peaceful protest and harassing vulnerable women.

A MNer posted this on a previous anti-abortion thread, and I think it's appropriate: stop-really-great-so-whats-abortion-11918264

[Agerbilatemycardigan]

For those who are calling it a peaceful protest - no it's not. It's an assault on the emotions of vulnerable women, therefore not at all peaceful. It's emotional violence.

And why is it that the pro-life protests I have seen, have such a large amount of men involved. I don't tell you what to do with your body, so keep your opinions on what I do with mine, to yourself!

[HelenaDove]

Ager. Its men scared that women will actually have some free time if they dont go ahead and have a child.

They are the same kind of men who pass comments on childfree by choice women. I am one and i did a couple of chat shows in the late 90s I remember an American guy yelling "Your"e not human" at me across the TV studio.

[HelenaDove]

And ive seen someone else get really vile abuse on Twitter for being childfree by choice.

[BuggeryBollox]

I sincerely hope that these vile protests become illegal. Women do not take such a decision lightly &, as others have said, clinics offer a range of services so they cannot possibly know who it is that they are targeting. DH walks past a Marie Stopes clinic near Euston every day & the same man & woman stand outside praying loudly. She starts talking to women & giving them leaflets as they try & enter. DH has stepped in several times when he has seen women become upset by their behaviour. He is always unsure whether he should but considers he would want someone to help me should I be in similar circumstances.

[betty62]

Buggery give your DH a big thank you hug from me. I wish more people would intervene when they see things like that. The ones outside of the clinic he passes are probably part of the same organisation that the ones in Ealing belong to - some of them are paid to be there, that is their full-time job. It's inexcusable.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

@BuggeryBollox my golden rule is to quietly ask the abused person. "Do you want me to walk with you?" Or "do you need anything?" Never engage with the abuser and always ask. I think you can't really go wrong like that.

[Agerbilatemycardigan]

HelenaDove I was so hoping that by the time my daughters were older that things would have moved on when it came to women's rights. The scary thing is that they seem to be either remaining stagnant, or going backwards. It's terrifying what's happening in some states of America at the moment, where the state is taking control of women's bodies and eroding their choices. The irony, is that these are the same people that describe other countries as backward.

Also, the child free debate. My youngest sister always said that she didn't want children. She had her reasons, and I respected them, quite regularly defending her decision to others who said she was selfish. To my way of thinking, making someone have a baby because they see females purely as incubators, is massively selfish and controlling.

I feel very strongly about a woman's right to choose. Women have fought long and hard to get where we are now, and I'll be damned if a bunch of sanctimonious religious zealots are going to erode our right to have autonomy over our own bodies.

Sorry for the rant, but the whole subject makes me 😡😡😡😡😡

[BuggeryBollox]

betty I will! I hope he isn't the only one to do so.

MrsTerryPratchett excellent advice. I shall pass it on.

[HelenaDove]

Ager agree with you about America. Just to clarify though the chat show was in Nottingham. I live in North Essex.

[Magicme1]

Happens at a clinic here too , the receptionists there told me she'd had two young girls very upset the day we were there, but explained that because they had set up the protest on the opposite pavement and not on the property then they weren't able to do anything about them .
I did go and tell them exactly what I thought of them when we left

[Agerbilatemycardigan]

I'm in Sussex Helena. We now have an FB feed to let us know when the pro-lifers are planning to next appear. Apparently they have to let the local constabulary know by law when they're planning a protest.

[seagreengirl]

This just makes me so mad!! Signed the main petition.

I would be very willing to counter protest, or walk in with women, at a clinic in North London if anyone knows anywhere that needs help. I don't drive and bad legs would make it hard to get to Ealing on a regular basis.

[pointythings]

You're not far from me, Helena and my Dsis, who is also child-free by choice is also in North Essex. She doesn't get abuse much, but then isn't online much.

And I signed the national petition when it came out - these people are vile.

[MephistophelesApprentice]

Signed. I live in Ealing and walk past the clinic almost every weekend. Personally I thought the ones beside the entrance were too damn close, while the ones who were by the tree opposite the entrance were at least a little more polite, but if they've been harassing people that's unacceptable and that deserves total exclusion.

[Majora]

The post which originally mentioned trans men was perfectly understandable and mentioned them only in passing. The comments on it have been unnecessarily unkind. Yes, trans men can get pregnant as they will have been born biologically female so yes, they will also be targeted by the people "protesting" and have every right to complain about it.

Thanks - I was just including something about myself. And I'm not FtM, but that just really complicates things more and I don't want people to start attacking me over my gender identity either, but it's important to note that trans men (FtM, people who identify as male but have a uterus and can get pregnant just as much as a woman with the same kit in her body) can get pregnant, need abortion access and get attacked for it. It happened to me.

The point is, these people are gross and are scaring vulnerable people away from getting abortions.