Charlie Gard 7

[CaveMum]

Continuation of the discussion.

It looks highly unlikely that there will be a verdict today as GOSH have not yet been able to put their case across. The Gard family had their position heard this morning and currently an expert witness from the US is being questioned via video link.

[NellieBuff]

I have walked in their shoes and it is something I would not wish on my worst enemy. There a point when you think who am I keeping this soul alive for - is it for them or is it for you? I loved my baby enough to let them go and I sat there the whole time. The parents in this case are not there yet or they may never get there.

Charlie is the most important person in this mess and I believe the best outcome for him is to be allowed to pass in peace. I really do feel for the parents but I believe they have a false hope that some idiots are feeding them.

My team (we are medical researchers) are also following this to monitor how medical research is portrayed and portrays itself. We had a straw poll yesterday and the only one who though Charlie should get the treatment is the one person who does not have children and is not a researcher but admin.

Tis sad all round.

[muckypup73]

Oh my word, it gets worst, all thesepeople making accusations, taken from Ca (if he gos for treatment and seen by other drs gosh may have a lot of explaining to do as I think they have at the very least neglected Charlies health by refusing treatment to be allowed taken away his family's right to a private life (human rights act) and Thier parental responsibly for what? Because the hospital choose death his parents choose life? I'm not expert but on those facts alone they have broken many laws set in place to protect people from organisations and I fear there is much more they are determined to hide. It's like Connie and Chris are on trial? For what?)

[cjt110]

I assume, GOSH/The Gards will not receive any judgment today?

[muckypup73]

NellieBuff, good post, I do hope they make the right decision, if not w will see this sort of thing over and over and over, people questioning the doctors ect.

[muckypup73]

cjt110, i presume not.

[ShatnersWig]

mucky Your posts are very hard to read. I think you're trying to quote and put things in bold but you're using brackets. You need to put an asterisk * in front of and at the end of whatever the quote is

[LovelyBath77]

I wonder if the parents consider that it might even me more difficult if Charlie 'improves' so much that he can experience the symptoms

[LovelyBath77]

mucky is quoting from CA and think it is hard to read due to how it is written (by CA I mean)

[cjt110]

LovelyBath77 I suppose, sadly, it is one blessing, the agrument that he doesn't experience the symptoms and potentially pain.

[muckypup73]

Theres not my quotes, their charliea army quotes, but thanks for tellingme how to do that, I appreciate that.

[muckypup73]

cjt110,nobody will ever know whever he experinces pain though, I like the fact that Gosh care enough to give him morpine just incase, he cannot show pain, cannot cry so how is anyone ever to know whever he feels it or not?

[cjt110]

Yes, thats why I say potentially mucky And yes, better to administer pain relief so curb any pain he may have than to pretend it's not a factor.

You seem to think I am for them prolonging this poor child's life. I am in support of whatever is in his best interests and prolonging any pain and suffering is most certainly not in his interests. I am just weighing it all up by saying, rightly or wrongly, the parents must be going through hell.

[DorotheaBeale]

Just read the GOSH statement. 'Charlie has no awareness.'

[Lancelottie]

That statement from GOSH is truly moving. I think they would have loved to have Charlie on their list of remarkable, heartwarming improvements in quality of life.

(I do agree with Katinkka that a bit of proofreading would have been wise, actually. There is one phrase about 'withdrawal of ventilation and palliative care' that could be read as 'withdrawing palliative care', which one hopes isn't what they mean.)

[muckypup73]

cjt110, I do not seem to think anything.

[cjt110]

Your replies to me mucky seem particularly scathing that's all.

[Rachel0Greep]

Thank you most sincerely to those who have shared your own stories on this and the previous threads.

I hope that poor baby will be allowed to slip away peacefully. I cannot even begin to imagine how anyone must feel to be in this situation.

I glanced at this thread earlier and saw an image from CA portraying Charlie hand in hand with his parents, presumably showing him starting school. How unutterably cruel to put together an image like that, simply for likes on Facebook.

[0nline]

I like the fact that Gosh care enough to give him morpine just incase

Me too.

The question of pain is one of the reasons I have the heebie geebies about him coming over here to Italy.

It is by means NOT all hospitals, but individual hospitals can and do have their own policies with regards to things like pain relief.

When my son was born I discovered our local hospital "didn't believe in pain relief". Shame I wasn't aware how faithfully they followed that protocol until after they stuck pessary in and I was too crippled by pain to shuffle off somewhere else.

My son was hospitalised there a year later with a screaming ear infection and a horribly high temp. They treated the infection, but wouldn't provide pain relief.

I am still pretty bitter about my experiences. And DS is 17 now. But at least I could (and did) avoid the hospital at all costs after those two experiences. But if Charlie is moved over to a hospital here he will be there, with all that this entails, potentially with little hope of a transfer out.

I don't know if this specific hospital has similar policies to the ones I fell foul of. But since such policies are not an unknown feature of Italian health care, I do think it should be clearly established what theirs are before a decision is made.

[spiney]

CA Facebook page seemed to be getting cleaned up before my eyes re threats of violence. A post from Marion Gard offering support to Charlie disappeared as I was reading it (?) In the comments section someone had written along the lines "there's no threats of violence here....." and then another " yes there are, it's here if you look...." .

And poof! it was gone.

Deeply sorry for poor Charlie. His poor parents. The hard working doctors and nurses. And every other person personally involved.

Absolutely disgusted with all the band wagon jumpers spouting ignorance ( and violence) . I think that like some football hooligans, there are people who love a good fight.

As for CA uSA . Its beyond. Think Along the lines of Trump and Airforce 1 swooping in to kidnap Charlie to 'safety'. ... or Charlie and his parents taking refuge in the US embassy. Please. Then I realised of course that they were in their own little echo chamber. 4,000 or so in that huge country. And did not represent most normal, decent people.... oh the power of the internet.

[cjt110]

I wonder why they have different policies 0nline? Surely it makes sense, in the scenarios you mention, that the patient is in pain, give them relief. The mind boggles...

[GabsAlot]

GOSH statemnt of position is quit clear

4 indepndant doctors agreed it would not be right/fair to expriment this treatment on him even one appointd by c and c agreed

yet one profssor who comes along an says it might make him slightly better with no evidence is being given credence over all others

doesnt seem right to me

Also c and c believ its their right to make a decision-this coyld set a very dangerous precedent if allowd as other parents will start taking life making decisions without consulting courts based on this case

[cjt110]

YY Gabs.

I wouldnt say the NY expert from yesterday seemed to provide any evidence to the contrary.

[ShatnersWig]

Lovely I wasn't commenting on the illiteracy of otherwise of the postings, but whenever mucky posted it ran straight on from her own words into what I assumed is a quote but with an open bracket at that point and a closed bracket at the end.

[TartanDMs]

Posts being reported on Facebook - I have reported lots of the nastier posts on CA (such as the ones threatening violence or calling GOSH murderers). They have all been deleted for violating community standards. It appears that although Facebook won't do anything about the page itself, individual comments can be deleted and the individuals banned. So although it's laborious it at least does seem to be working.

[Minkyfluffster]

The statement is profound. if you haven't read I would recommend it.

I didn't realise that the parents hired their own expert and they advised the same as the GOSH team and the experts that they had approached from other hospitals for a second opinion.

The professor in the US made the offer of unlicensed drugs but did nothing about it, hasn't applied for anything, to use the drugs, FDA to treat the patient, nothing. So basically he is offering an unlicensed drug and isn't licensed to treat the patient?

I was shocked that he hadn't even read the previous ruling output before "attending" court yesterday, really shoddy on his part.