Charlie Gard 7

[CaveMum]

Continuation of the discussion.

It looks highly unlikely that there will be a verdict today as GOSH have not yet been able to put their case across. The Gard family had their position heard this morning and currently an expert witness from the US is being questioned via video link.

[LovelyBath77]

Because he is just lying there, like an angel, they need do no care, it is less realistic for the parents than with a tantrumming, child having seizures, needing constant case from his parents. because he can't express his pain, they can't see it for themselves, I feel that all that contributes to the possible detail of the reality of his condition.

[muckypup73]

Sostenueto, do you have a hangover luv? lol

[LovelyBath77]

I think the parents refused all counselling offered.

[muckypup73]

Katinkka, again agreed.

[Sostenueto]

Perhaps the nursing staff should step back and say " here's your child, do all of his care 24/7 for the next week without any help from us and see how you get on".

[GabsAlot]

morning all anothr day of stress it seems

for ca comments if anyone can reply just quote the recent viscount rhodri phillips case for his threats against gina miller on fb

it was taken to court so it doesnt matter who you are u cannot make threats to anyone

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/viscount-rhodri-phillips-jailed-12-weeks-gina-miller-killing-brexit-campaigner-remain-a7839641.html

[LovelyBath77]

I don't think they could Sos. It's their duty of care..I know what you mean though. Especially as he was like a normal baby at birth, and then has been in hospital since he got worse. they have just had the newborn bit and then this.

[cjt110]

What horrendous things must he be going through that he can't express meddie

All I keep thinking is until you walk a mile in the shoes of the Gard's, you might never know how you would react.

The closest comparison I personally have is when my son was rushed into A&E resus at 11m old, pulse of 200, temp of 39.4 and SATs of 84% due to an allergy. I imagined I would go to pieces. Be a gibbering wreck. Far from it I became removed and very numb to it all.

[muckypup73]

Sostenueto, probably a good idea, as the nurses are awake all night looking after charlie, and with a child with that level of needs will will need 24/7 care as mymother did, I never actually understood why my mother took to the drink, but I do now.

[Sostenueto]

Hi mucky! No hangover, just a very bad night but mainly bloody pissed off with the parents mega loads. Think we all need another bottle of

[DarthMaiden]

To be honest I felt I understood his parents position much better after hearing from the US doctor yesterday.

I think they genuinely believe Charlie can get better. There was a lot in that testimony that gave grounds for hope - until it (in my view) started to crumble under cross examination.

If they have communicated him directly, it's understandable they have latched onto those positive messages and believe that this treatment will have a significant impact on their sons health.

This is a good reason why the court system is in place. So that testimony can be challenged and put in context.

I'm not saying the US Doctor did anything wrong - he gave evidence about the potential benefit of the therapy, but the crux of the argument is understanding how much brain damage Charlie has already suffered and he admitted he was not qualified to assess this.

[muckypup73]

cjt110, I know what you are saying, however they are not doing whats best for their child, they are doing whats best for them.

[muckypup73]

Sostenueto, haha bit early for me darling lol

[LovelyBath77]

Yes, when DS1 was 2 he had to go into the hospital with SATs in the 70s, with 'atypical pneumonia' it was so stressful, and I do remember things not helping such as because he had vomited, we were out in a section for those with D & V norovirus (which he didn;t have, he had just vomited a tiny bit due to his illness) and then, the nurses complained when we took some toys in that they would have to disinfect it. It was just the last straw and though usually reasonable made me burst into tears with the stress. Lack of sleep and stress can have huge affects on people, especially over a long period.

[Sostenueto]

People are walking the mile every day and are managing to make the right decisions. Please don't keep making excuses. Even the judge us giving them this last chance to actually comprehend their child cannot be cured. Everyone's patience is now running out as regards the parents. ( goodness I'm in a foul mood, need to step away for a bit)

[cjt110]

Just remember please, as posted by MNHQ yesterday, let's stick to facts, not criticism of the parents. I believe Katherine said any posts defamatory will be removed.

mucky Again, until you walk a mile in their shoes, you never know. They may never be able to have a "normal" child. Charlie may be their only child. And who is wrong to fight for their child, whether the view is skewed or not. This is why the courts must decide based on evidence presented. And not subjective emotions.

[cjt110]

Sostenueto I'm not making excuses. I am saying, at least I personally, have no idea what as parents they must be going through. And to accept you child cannot be cured must feel like failure.

[0nline]

I still can't believe someone said that Charlie suffering is better than being dead

Might be a hardcore Catholic stance. Suffering is a "thing". (I'm a bit hazy on the details. I've read lots about it, but still don't really understand)

But it would have to be up there with Mother Teresa levels of "suffering is good from a faith perspective". Because I checked out some of my "not so soft core" Catholic homeschool forums and while they acknowledged the role of suffering in faith, they drew pretty much the same conclusions as people here with regards to what is the morally correct thing to do for Charlie as an individual.

If the overwhelming majority of that group are coming down on the side of letting him die rather than prolonging suffering, then it would be quite an extreme religious position to go in the opposite direction. But this is exactly the sort of case that can and does attract the attention of people with a rather more extreme interpretation of their faith. So I guess it is not such a huge surprise to see that expressed in discussions.

[GabsAlot]

dont know if this will work but look at what this poor girl is lik and her mothr ants to let her go

www.facebook.com/BBCFamilyNews/videos/1507971325932596/

[MirandaWest]

Thank you Lapin for posting the Statement from GOSH.

[muckypup73]

cjt110, I am not sure its critising so to say they are not making the right decision by their child.

[cjt110]

• can I just add please, I agree wholeheatedly that the best thing for Charlie, who's interests are paramount, is to allow him to pass away pain free but I can also empathise with what a huge thing this must also be for the parents, especially if based on the NY experts "evidence" which sounds positive, and as a PP says, until put under cross exam.

[muckypup73]

cjt110, I have not walked a mile in their shoes, however I have been part of a same situation, just with a different illness, which makes this case close to my heart, it is close to everyones heart because of a little baby boy, but like I say I have been part of a situation where we had the same with my brother, mymother turned to drink whilst looking after him, they had to make the decision to turnlife support off, one agreed the other diddnt, life support was turned off anyway.

[TheWeeWitch]

@Sostenueto 10:17

Agree completely.

[cjt110]

No, I agree mucky it's not criticising to say that. It's hard to articulate what I mean. I suppose what I mean is no-one has a right to say them fighting for their child is wrong even if it is due to mistaken belief.

As a parent I would want to fight tooth and nail for my child but there, in this case, comes the sad time when you have to accept it is time to let them go. That must be an horrendous thing to endure.