To ask how you address it when you and DH disagree on how to deal with bad behaviour?

[holliedaze]

DD aged 3 is difficult ... DH blames me for this and thinks we should be stricter.

She tantrums, she exclusively wants me to the point where her younger sister doesn't get a look in and her sleep is poor.

Dh is a stricter parent but as a result I feel I always have to be the neutral parent - he shouts and smacks (not hard but I've told him again and again I hate it and it's out of order. He's from the 'it did me no harm' school of parenting.)

Can anyone advise? It's so tense.

[holliedaze]

Well, DD isn't hit regularly, which doesn't make it acceptable and we have managed to talk about it today calmly. I'm sorry that happened to you Dawn.

[DawnOfTheMombie]

I was hit as a child. Regularly and with more violence as I got older. By by mother and my step father stood by and watched it happen, and despite his recent apology for being in his words "a fucking coward" I still despise them both.

I am not okay.

Your children will not be okay.

[FloofyCat]

Honestly, people saying "it's no big deal, it won't do them any harm" etc think about what you are saying here. You are basically saying to OP "it's Ok for your DH to hit your kids". Why would anyone think like this? It genuinely baffles me.

[FloofyCat]

Mumsnet at its finest! Op should call the police and leave her husband because he hit her! Jesus. Good luck with the police. And leave her husband? Whatever happened to talking things through, getting counselling, trying to help her husband with his anger? No! Let's get a divorce and traumatise the kids further instead. Genius

Namechange, how does that sound to you? Acceptable? I sincerely hope not, and if not, why then is it OP's responsibility to "help him with his anger" when he is hitting the DC instead of her?

Zero tolerance is surely the acceptable response towards violence (of any form) in a relationship, no matter who is in the relationship. People can minimise it all they like with "a tap on the bum". Would they be happy for their husbands/partners to give them a tap on the bum/quick smack/clip round the ear/quick smack on the bum (phrases used in this thread) if their husband disagreed with their behaviour? Again, I sincerely hope not, and suspect it wouldn't be. Why then is it acceptable to hit children but not adults, in some peoples' minds?

Violence should never be tolerated and accepted, especially against children.

[FuckingSausageFingers]

I fucking hate the "I was smacked as a kid and I turned out ok" brigade. Babies were given brandy in their bottles, children worked as chimney sweeps. Times change and we move on. Hitting children is NOT ok.

Do whatever you need to do to make sure your husband never hits your daughter again. If you can get the message across with a serious chat, fine. Anger management, fine. Parenting parenting classes, great. If you need to LTB, then so be it.

If adults hitting each other = assault - and a potential prison sentence - why should a parent be allowed to hit their child? Your husband needs to accept there is no excuse.

And please, for gods sake stop trying to minimise his behaviour by using the phrase "tap on the bum". Your husband is hitting your child.

[namechange20050]

Mumsnet at its finest! Op should call the police and leave her husband because he smacked their child! Jesus. Good luck with the police. And leave her husband? Whatever happened to talking things through, getting counselling, trying to help her husband with his anger? No! Let's get a divorce and traumatise the kids further instead. Genius.

[TheSockGoblin]

I hear that the book 'The Highly Sensitive Child' is very good for parents of children who have a lot of tantrums and are intense.

<a class="break-all" href="//www.amazon.co.uk/Highly-Sensitive-Child-children-overwhelms-ebook/dp/B008CBDOQG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1496235612&sr=8-2&keywords=the%20highly%20sensitive%20child&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">//www.amazon.co.uk/Highly-Sensitive-Child-children-overwhelms-ebook/dp/B008CBDOQG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1496235612&sr=8-2&keywords=the%20highly%20sensitive%20child&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[JoshLymanJr]

Am I the only one who doesn't see a smack on the arse every so often when being naughty as a big deal?

I think much the same - we could get a spank or a clip on the ear from mum if we were really badly behaved. Very rare, but it wasn't exactly unheard of.

I don't do it myself, but nor do I consider it to automatically be abuse.

[WhooooAmI24601]

OP the "DP blames me for this" is the worst part of your post.

Smacking is smacking; you either do or you don't and if you do, there's nobody who'll change that and if you don't, there's nobody who'll convince you it's right. We don't. We never have; I don't judge those who do, I simply feel sad that children would experience that from those who are there to protect them. The fact that your DH does smack, but then blames you for your DD's difficult behaviour, is awful. She's 3. She's not far from being a baby, her emotions and understanding and awareness are nowhere near developed fully so you (and your DH) have to make allowances for this. You have to look at the world from her view; work out what you can relax the rules on and what you're going to stick to your guns on. Pick your battles, stick to the same rules and expectations no matter where she is/which parent she's with and parent together.

There's no way to actively parent with someone whose views diametrically oppose your own to this degree; one or both of you has to be willing to compromise. If you can't, prepare yourselves for unhappy children and a pretty unhappy marriage.

[Bonez]

Sorry replying to myself...

That said my dad must have smacked me on the bum once in my whole life whereas my mum would smack me all the time. The smacks never bothered me. I was more concerned with my dad telling me off for being naughty than my mum smacking me!

[Bonez]

Am I the only one who doesn't see a smack on the arse every so often when being naughty as a big deal?

[Quartz2208]

But it's not bad behaviour. It's frustration and anger because she is not understood and then not only is she not understood she is punished for it. This means she will start to accept that her feelings and emotions aren't valid and led to (physical punishment)

Initially long tantrums are normal, 45 minutes is nothing in the world of tantrums. She is clearly a high needs child that needs lots of physical reassurance (and yes I have one, still do at 8) whose world has been unseated by her sibling. She needs validation that feeling unsettled is normal but that nothing has changed again punishment for these is simply reaffirming her view that she is being replaced.

First thing look at her routine, poor repeating and sleeping exacerbates behaviour. Secondly both of you need to stop thinking off it as bad, (the gift shop for example is her learning you don't always get what you want an important lesson). Thirdly tell your husband it has done him harm as it means he was taught that emotions are wrong and anger and physical response are right

[BertieBotts]

As a first step it might be looking at strategies to improve your communication and cooperative approach as this is essential (IMO) to effective discipline. It's useful for all parts of shared parenting, but discipline is especially emotive and tends to be something which stretches us to our limits, so it's especially important to be able to communicate and collaborate with your spouse about it. Really - this is make or break crisis stuff.

[BertieBotts]

OP it sounds from your posts in this thread that you're only staying with your DH because you're worried about unsupervised contact should you leave him! Please tell us that isn't the case? If that's genuinely your position, then you should leave. They won't actually be harmed by being smacked on occasion (despite hysteria, and no, I don't consider smacking acceptable) and it tends to be that one household where things are calm is a much better barrier to normalising poor models than having one parent "playing referee" - but actually failing to have much of a mitigating effect at all.

If you're just getting drawn into an odd argument on the thread and it's not that you want to leave at all what happens when you discuss behaviour tactics? Would you be able to make a plan with appropriate steps that you're both happy to carry out? What can sometimes happen as you're finding when you disagree on tactics is that he feels you're being too lax/soft so becomes stricter or uses stronger tactics in order to balance things out, whereas you feel he's being too harsh so become more reasonable, more compassionate and let more things go in order to balance things out, and the whole thing gets more unbalanced with the result that the poor child ends up with an extremely inconsistent approach which is unhelpful on both ends of the scale.

It's usually caused by poor communication between the two parents, where you're seeing each other's parenting or approach or criticism of your own methods as an attack and responding defensively, instead of trying to approach the problem behaviours as a team with a shared approach.

There are various ways to approach this in a more helpful way but you need to be able to talk about it first without feeling attacked by the other.

[hottotrotsky]

Her epic tantrums are proof the shouting/smacking doesn't work. She must be anxious with a daddy like that.

My 2.5 yo dd will hurl herself at/on me as soon as 6 yo ds is in the vicinity yet I wouldn't dream of shouting at her. It's her normal toddlerish possessiveness. I explain big bro needs mummy too but I don't expect her to understand.

[Ricekrispiecakes]

The more I read back the op the more I'm not surprised the dd is highly strung.

Op says 'it's so tense', she probably feels insecure with her baby sibling, her dad hitting her, her mum's the only one she can trust.

[Ricekrispiecakes]

I do wonder about the mentality of a man who can hit a tiny 3 year old.

They're so small, vulnerable and totally reliant on the adults in their life for everything.

How many of us can even remember much about being 3? How much self awareness does a 3 year old have that they deserve to be smacked for not being how their parents expect them to be.

[StubbleTurnips]

OP your DH is a cunt, minimising it as a tap on the bum makes you fucking delusional.

I abhor smacking.

I was tapped/ smacked as a 3 year old. Didn't work. Smacked as a 4 year old, harder. Smacked as a 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 year old. The only difference being they stopped smacking with hands and started using a wooden spoon - or a memorable occasion with a hoover tube.

Did it stop the behaviour, no. Did it make me hate my parents, yes. My mum for allowing and dad for doing it.

Get a grip and stop him Physically abusing your 3 year old daughter. But I suspect the damage is already done.

[youarenotkiddingme]

I'm another who says smacking is an absolute no no. You need to lay it on the line that if he does it again he's out in his ear.

But this needs to go hand in hand with an open and honest discussion about managing behaviour.

You say you feel you need to be the neutral parent because DH is strict.
He may feel he has to be strict because your the more neutral parent. He may think you aren't disciplining at all so he has to do it twice as hard.

[FloofyCat]

I have just supported my friend through the process. It is possible but it's hard and you have to fight. It is a choice if you're prepared to do it and I hope you seek RL help to help you make that choice.

[pointythings]

But are you going to follow up on Floofy's suggestion of getting some real life help to cope with your DH's violence and your passive acceptance of it? Because if you just let things go as they are, you really are as bad as he is.

[justkeepswimmingg]

Parenting classes can help you to both come up with your parenting styles and help you stop butting heads. Alternatively you both need to write down what you don't agree with in terms of your different parenting styles, and make a compromise for in between. It's only going to work if you both fully commit, and are both unhappy with how the situation is at the moment.
I couldn't be with someone who felt it was ok to hit my DC, and I made that crystal clear to DH prior to having our DS. I came from a household where my dad hit me, and it's affected me long term. Btw I'm not saying leaving your DH, just that you need to discuss and compromise as it isn't ok what he is doing x

[Orangetoffee]

She is 3! He shouts at her and smacks her, that is not discipline, it is bullying. And it will only get worse if you do not put a stop to it.

[holliedaze]

You really can't Floofy

I'm sorry, but you can't. I'm not trying to be difficult, I don't invent the law.

I did not come on here with the intention to anger people so I'll step back.

[DasPepe]

Maybe sit down with your husband and have a chat, highlighting that:
Hitting and shouting are not only not a solution, they are also a dead end road for you. You need alternatives for different behaviors in order to get a result. If smacking is the one all solution for everything it's going to wear off and cause damage in the relationship along the way. It can also escalate, even if you don't mean it to
Your husband thinks that it hasn't harmed him, but ask him what's going on in his mind just before a smack. If he just "reacts" that means he has been conditioned by the aggression. It's the same way when we shout / say the same things as our parents did to us: we're not actually "present" and thinking in these situations, we just repeat behavior
Set an ultimatum if needed. Your child is 3. These feel awful because you have so littler control (and here is the issue, it's all about control and power with smacking) but there will be worst behavior and challenges for you ahead. You need to be a team.

Try different approaches. Distract them instead. Pick them up (i.e. Your husband) give them a big hug. Physically remove them from the floor but then be loving. They will surprise with thei response.

I've just recently realised that "winning" with the kids sometimes doesn't take the same form as I expect. Because they are humans not robots :)


And I understand all of the other posters who say that smacking is terrible. But you are dealing with it OP and you started by asking for advice. It sounds like you want to be a team with your husband, but sometimes you need one of you to lead and set the rules.