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AIBU?

Jury duty when you're on low income/benefits

72 replies

QuimJongUn · 17/05/2017 12:13

DH is currently on jury duty. He has to pay for train tickets to the court every day and buy his own drinks/lunch etc. Which is fine - he'll get fully reimbursed when his service ends.

I was thinking, though, what do you do if you're on a very low income, or benefits? His transport/basic food is costing him around £10 a day. If you're on benefits, over a fortnight that's almost all your money gone. What do you do for grocery shopping/bills etc? It's all very well to say it'll be reimbursed but if you've noone to borrow it from and no savings, you're fucked. And if you refuse to do it, you could get a £1,000 fine.

It seems very unfair to me. Saying you can't afford it isn't a legitimate excuse to be excused, either. Surely it needs looking at?

OP posts:

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QuimJongUn · 17/05/2017 19:04

I think you are making drama and problems where none exist OP

Er, not really. As PPs have said, the rules have recently changed. It's much harder to 'get out of' JS now (not sure when your DH/friend were called). Being on a low income/benefits is not a valid reason to be excused, which was my original point.

And as PPs have also said, lack of child care won't excuse you, either.

I'm not saying people should try to get out of JS - just that it should be made as easy as possible for them to do it, financially. Waiting over a fortnight to be reimbursed for travel etc when you have children to feed and bills to pay on a low income just isn't acceptable.

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Magicpaintbrush · 17/05/2017 18:59

What if you are self employed as a freelancer and there is nobody else who can possibly cover you at work? What would happen re. loss of earnings and missed deadlines (angry clients!) - if you were an illustrator or similar and couldn't afford to take time away from work?

youaredeluded · 17/05/2017 18:35

My dh is self employed. He got called up for jury service and was in the middle of a contract. He just emailed the court and told them this. They said no problem you don't have to come. When I was younger I was called up for JS and was skint. I phoned them and explained. They said no problem. Really, there is no problem here, they are pretty reasonable and easy to "get out of" if you can't do it. A friend had 2 small children and was a SAHM, they let her off too. I think you are making drama and problems where none exist OP.

Redglitter · 17/05/2017 17:58

And btw, the big fraud cases aren't heard by normal juries any more,

The one that's just finished in Glasgow was. There are numerous referenced to the jurors in media reports. Some about the problems they encountered sitting on a jury for a 20 month trial

MatildaTheCat · 17/05/2017 17:28

The oddest thing is the random selection of jurors. Ok, it's supposed to be random but neither my dh, myself, most of our many siblings and my closest friends have ever been called and we are in our fifties.

Last week I was chatting to a friend and she had done jury service five times. Now how is that fair? Surely there should be a pool of people large enough to choose from who've not done it before selecting someone who has?

Some love it, some hate it. A couple of people I've known have been shocked by how little attention the other jurors paid to the case.

And btw, the big fraud cases aren't heard by normal juries any more, it was too complicated. I think specialist judges sit and make judgement.

QuimJongUn · 17/05/2017 17:12

My husband has just ten minutes ago put his expenses in and he was told he'd be getting £32 a day.

Even if it were the higher figure, that's still around half of what he earns a day.

And there's no need to be quite so unpleasant.

OP posts:

Gallavich · 17/05/2017 16:54

The 4 hours includes travel time too so that could be as little as 2 hours waiting then getting sent away which happens quite regularly

Gallavich · 17/05/2017 16:53

Ask whoever said you're in contempt of court if you go to work after - don't be daft. They specifically ask on the expenses form if you can go back to work if released early!

Gallavich · 17/05/2017 16:51

Here ya go

Jury duty when you're on low income/benefits

Gallavich · 17/05/2017 16:47

For a two week trial, the most you'll get is around £32 a day

Nope, that's for half a day. A full day is double that, and double again in the 3rd week. Read the form properly before you start frothing.

I've literally just sat on a jury where someone was deselected (before swearing in) because she had a new job starting what would have been during the trial.

QuimJongUn · 17/05/2017 16:43

Jury service is 10 days. If you cannot commit more than the time estimates for the trial you tell the judge when you get selected and they will deselect you. It's not that big a deal

It's two working weeks. And they don't deselect you.

Those who were selected for the six week trial at DH's court were told that only a pre-booked and paid for holiday or operation would excuse them. Work commitments were not an acceptable reason.

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QuimJongUn · 17/05/2017 16:41

People on shift work or zero hours contracts submit their last 4 weeks payslips and get reimbursed the average earnings they would have earned if not on jury service

For a two week trial, the most you'll get is around £32 a day. They expect employers to pick up the shortfall, but it's not compulsory that they do. Which of course it bloody well should be - or the court should reimburse for all lost earnings.

It's also not compulsory for employers to keep a position open for a juror. The pack DH received gave details of how to take it to a tribunal if you're sacked. The court, however, fully expects you to attend regardless of your employer's position.

OP posts:

Gallavich · 17/05/2017 16:40

Jury service is 10 days. If you cannot commit more than the time estimates for the trial you tell the judge when you get selected and they will deselect you. It's not that big a deal.

QuimJongUn · 17/05/2017 16:37

Can you avoid doing it if the subject matter would be triggering for you?

You can ask not to sit on a particular case for that reason, but they will assign you to another trial instead. There are several trials going on at any one time in any given court, so if you feel unable to sit on one jury there'll be another available.

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QuimJongUn · 17/05/2017 16:35

It sounds like lots of courts do pay expenses one day at a time if you need it - has your DH actually asked for this and been refused OP?

He didn't need to, luckily we can afford it. But everyone was told on the first day that expenses were paid in arrears with no exceptions. I guess it must vary, depending on where you are.

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Gallavich · 17/05/2017 16:34

So I haven't read the thread but I can contribute -
A juror who is on jobseekers has had their expenses paid each week in cash
You get paid £5 a day towards lunch and you don't have to provide receipts - so as I have brought my own (as I would to work) I am in credit
People on shift work or zero hours contracts submit their last 4 weeks payslips and get reimbursed the average earnings they would have earned if not on jury service

MyProperTea · 17/05/2017 16:34

Can you avoid doing it if the subject matter would be triggering for you?

CormorantDevouringTime · 17/05/2017 16:31

I don't think I'm in favour of people being forced to do jury service at metaphorical gun point. You want people who are more or less up for it otherwise they're hardly going to do their best job.

It sounds like lots of courts do pay expenses one day at a time if you need it - has your DH actually asked for this and been refused OP?

I had a staff member called up for jury service one year while we were desperately understaffed. We let him go but on condition that he was not to sign up to anything over 2 weeks. When he was immediately drafted into a 6 week trial he said "but I can't! Cormorant told me I can't! I'm really vital to the functioning of the company in my highly skilled specialism!" Judge looked down at unexceptional young bloke in his third best jeans and sweatshirt and did face. Catbert from HR had to send a strongly worded letter saying "yes I know he looks and sounds like one of the dimmer Inbetweeners but he is indeed a highly skilled professional who is vital to the functioning of our business and no you can't sodding have him for 6 weeks"

QuimJongUn · 17/05/2017 16:19

Am I missing the point about the expense of lunch? Surely you'd have to eat whether you were at home, work or on jury service?

You can make a quick lunch at home very cheaply - a 25p pack of noodles or a couple of slices of toast, say. Stuff for sandwiches, drinks, etc all adds up over a fortnight. If you live rurally and have to get to the nearest big town or city, the cost of travel would be astronomical, not to mention getting a bus in the first place.

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MorrisZapp · 17/05/2017 16:17

I don't understand the lunch thing either, sorry. Why does lunch need to be provided?

LurkingHusband · 17/05/2017 16:15

Am I missing the point about the expense of lunch? Surely you'd have to eat whether you were at home, work or on jury service?

It's "logic" like that which means anyone imprisoned and later released as a result of an unsafe conviction is required to repay the Home Office the cost of board and lodging.

QuimJongUn · 17/05/2017 16:13

Fuds I never even considered how it'd work for those on zero-hour contracts. That's despicable.

I was under the impression that if a trial was over 3 weeks they asked for volunteers

Nope. There was a trial expected to last six weeks starting the day DH began his stint. Thankfully he wasn't selected for that one, but the ones that were will have had to make their own arrangements to be away from work, home etc.

OP posts:

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LurkingHusband · 17/05/2017 15:43

I was under the impression that if a trial was over 3 weeks they asked for volunteers

Not sure how I would feel being tried by people who actually volunteered for the privilege ...

LittleWingSoul · 17/05/2017 15:34

Am I missing the point about the expense of lunch? Surely you'd have to eat whether you were at home, work or on jury service? Don't see how lunch would put you out of pocket. Take a packed lunch!

Weeks out of work though... that's what I'd dread, as I'm on a zero-hour contract and could lose more hours of work than just the jury time if I were to take it off. Oh and of course child care... But I guess if I was called I'd do my best to attend!

What happens if the trial goes on for say, more than a month and you really really can't afford to lose any more hours of work?

BollardDodger · 17/05/2017 15:30

I've just finished a four month trial and the only work excuse to get out of it was if you were a sole trader
I was under the impression that if a trial was over 3 weeks they asked for volunteers

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