to think there can be no justification for not allowing trousers for primary girls

[Napoliforte]

DD never wears skirts or dresses outside of school, she wears jeans and leggings and trousers and shorts. At school she's forced to wear a school skirt, and as of half term, a summer dress. We asked could she wear trousers, or the tracksuit joggers she has for PE, or smart shorts, but all were rejected. They are not seen as "smart" or traditional. AIBU to think this is silly and very sexist?

[Railgunner1]

When a school has a daft uniform policy, i'd be suspicious of what other nonsense goes in there

[waterlego6064]

More, not Moreno 😂

[waterlego6064]

Pretty much. AndNow BUT...we are lucky to live in a town with several really nice High schools. If that hadn't been the case, we would probably have tried to have Moreno influence. As it happened, her first and second choices were the same as ours. Third choice not so much but even that wouldn't have been problematic really. Luckily she got her (and our) first choice.

[AndNowItIsSeven]

*lego

[AndNowItIsSeven]

Your let your dd choose her own high school waterleho?

[waterlego6064]

When choosing secondary schools, my DD discounted our local girls' comp on the basis that they have to wear skirts (and it's a regulation ankle-length skirt). I don't know what would happen if a student turned up there in trousers, but there's certainly no mention of trousers in their uniform policy, and I've never seen any of their pupils in anything other than the regulation skirt.

At my secondary (early 90s) girls were not allowed to wear trousers. We for a petition up but the Head wasn't interested. Not long after my year group left, they change the policy to include trousers for girls.

[NoLoveofMine]

How many boys do you think are complaining

Even aside from boys I know about, five seconds on Google suggests quite a few:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-36868781

metro.co.uk/2011/05/10/chris-whitehead-wears-skirt-to-school-in-protest-against-schools-uniform-policy-6848/

[LorLorr2]

Also, at my own school it actually felt like trousers were more approved of, because they were seen as modest and it's hard to break rules with them - with skirts, the 'uniform police' teachers were always on to us, checking the length and calling up girls who they felt looked inappropriate in tight ones.

[CheesyCrust]

Yes, I forgot the ever-important smiley face. Dentists are people too

I've been deadly serious and honest with every other point made though.

[RavenclawWriter]

"No one complained 20 years ago about school uniform."

Yes they did. My older sister left high school in 1998. In her last year she won the right in our really sexist "traditional" Catholic school for us girls to wear trousers. I was very proud of her and I don't think it's co-incidence that my confidence vastly improved after that. There was a lot of harassment to girls from boys and male teachers!

Tailored trousers on girls look very smart, in my experience. Most of the schools round here now allow girls to wear trousers. I doubt I'd be happy sending my kids to a school that didn't.

[Naicehamshop]

I imagine the average age is thirties/forties, but I may be wrong. You, Cheesy, seem to have wandered in from the 1950s.

[LorLorr2]

Didn't some boys stage a mini protest at their secondary school one summer a few years ago, where they came to school wearing skirts. I think they were saying their trousers were too hot and it was unfair that skirts were allowed but shorts weren't.
Sorry not much to do with anything it just came to mind haha

[NoLoveofMine]

This is a wind up, isn't it?

Has to be

[Naicehamshop]

Cheesy - just laughed out loud at your comment about "dressing smarter" and becoming a doctor rather than a dentist!! This is a wind up, isn't it?

[BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou]

At my children's primary girls were not allowed to wear trousers or shorts despite the fact that most of the local primaries (including where I work) do allow it.

However, I cannot think of any local secondary that allows girls to wear trousers before the sixth form. DD was allowed trousers from sixth form if they were part of a suit but generally didn't as it was hard to find suits of any description to fit her (size 4-6 at that time) so a dress and blazer were easier.

I do remember a time when I wasn't allowed to wear trousers for work AND skirts weren't allowed to be below to knee....... the 'olden days' my kids call those late 80's to early 90's!

[NoLoveofMine]

How old are you? Your siblings still go to school.

I'm 17. I still go to school. I have no dress code or uniform now as my school doesn't have any in the 6th form. Previously I could wear skirts or trousers.

If she'd worked harder and dressed smarter then perhaps she could have been a doctor, not a dentist.

Presumably an abysmal attempt at humour.

[CheesyCrust]

Naicehamshop

I'm a headmistress, but thanks for asking.

I am quite old fashioned in my views in many ways but known in my field for quite progressive views with regard to educational science.

I'm closer to retirement than much else but have no idea where I am with regard to average age. What is the average age?

[Gileswithachainsaw]

If she'd worked harder and dressed smarter then perhaps she could have been a doctor, not a dentist

[CheesyCrust]

NoLoveofMine

How old are you? Your siblings still go to school.

I know of but not know St Paul's. I've met the headmistress who famously said "[the parents are] not at all on board with the idea of school as a community, learning to come second or that learning to give ground is an important part of education." If they have no uniform policy then perhaps they should,


My mum's a dentist and I've not seen her in a skirt or dress in years.

If she'd worked harder and dressed smarter then perhaps she could have been a doctor, not a dentist.

[Naicehamshop]

CheesyCrust - I assume you don't work in a school? I do, and I see children playing on the school field every day.

Younger girls do care about showing their knickers, and older girls do like doing cartwheels and being able to totally relax and play as they would like, without worrying about underwear showing.

To be honest, you sound very old fashioned in your views. I'd like to ask -in the nicest possible way - are you older than the majority of posters on here? I genuinely haven't heard views like yours expressed for a very long time.

[NoLoveofMine]

No, I mean St Paul's Girls' School.

Actually plenty of boys complain about school dress codes. My brothers attend an independent boys' school (one of the highest performing) where the students successfully badgered the school to relax their 6th form dress code.

Anyway, as I said, the country's top performing school has no uniform and dress code and all independent schools either girls or mixed I know of allow skirts or trousers in uniform. There is no reason not to.

And proper professionals (i don't mean office rats and corporate slaves), but like professors, doctors, accountants, are pretty much free to wear casual.

Very much so. My mum's a dentist and I've not seen her in a skirt or dress in years.

[CheesyCrust]

Albatross

Men and women are judged by the way they dress. All people are judged by the way they look. This isn't a feminist issue because it affects everyone.

It comes up in rape cases all the time

Is there a feminist equivalent of Godwin's Law where "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a reference to rape approaches"?

Nothing to do with perverts, abusers etc (own issues?!)

Did you just allude to me being abused? Surely you aren't quite such a low specimen as to do so. Did I misunderstand?


it's about uniform that isn't uniform because it's different according to gender.

A uniform can have varieties. Try not to be pedantic with regard to language. The army has a uniform despite different ranks wearing different things. A school uniform can include dresses and skirts for girls and trousers and shorts for boys.


Why is my question a wild reach. Independent schools have stricter uniform policies. Independent schools tend to have higher academic attainment (if they didn't, people wouldn't be moaning about the injustice of them). I asked if it was in spite of the uniform but you ignored the question.


WRT to up-skirt photos; I'm not sure if 0.00005999% (based on 1/6 of the population being school-boy-age) constitutes a serious issue in some (3) schools.

NoLoveOfMine

You mean KES]?

They have an incredibly strict policy which, at a brief glance, gives girls more freedom than boys.

No jewelry for boys but allowed for girls. No hoddies, not even school sports hoodies.

"Short sleeve shirts are welcomed. Long sleeves may be worn with the cuffs buttoned or rolled up neatly."

"Boys: Hair is to be off-the-collar and must not appear excessively razored (level 2 is the absolute minimum and may be unacceptable in some cases), and should not hang over the eyes when wet and combed forward. Facial hair (stubble, beards, moustaches, excessively long sideburns) is not usually permitted.
Girls: For health and safety reasons, girls with long hair are likely to be required to tie it back in some lessons."

How many boys do you think are complaining or have their fathers complaining on line and coming up with a plan to have them wear a skirt and call the local press when the head disagrees?

I suspect none. I was at the school within the last 6 months. It's wonderful and the dress code is a small part of what makes it exceptional.

DeleteOrDecay

Somewhere in between. I wish I had the time to see every child as an individual but I can't. I'm responsible for the education of nearly 500 pupils from 2-IB. I know 75% of them by name but can't treat every single one as an individual. It's unrealistic to even attempt to. It isn't to say that an education can't be tailored to an individual but that doesn't extend to uniforms and basic rules.

When discussing transexuals and sport, it seems that most people on MN have really easy methods for distinguishing the population in to two homogenous masses.

[Railgunner1]

Which particular child are you talking about?
OP's child and every other girl who hates skirts/dresses. Just because females had been forced into them for ages doesn't mean we should continue.

I was talking about dress codes not uniform. I don't mean a poloshirt with 'Spar' embroidered on to it but a professional job where people need to dress appropriately, not look to push the boundaries with their appearance and then wonder why their careers don't take off.
I once watched interview with a high-flying city banker, who said that in his job its important to have your own style, even is its suits.
And proper professionals (i don't mean office rats and corporate slaves), but like professors, doctors, accountants, are pretty much free to wear casual. There's no obligation for women to wear a dress.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Ha I never wore dresses either hated them.

We weren't allowed to wear trousers at school. Hated that too.

Dd1 wishes she could wear leggings to school as they are the only trousers that don't make her itch (eczema) which is why she wears a skirt but they often play sports at lunch for which they (boys included ) change Into or kits which I expect is nore down to hygiene (or shorts cooler and sweaty kids in sweaty clothing well....) They also wear pe kit to school twice a week. Hers is leggins

[DeleteOrDecay]

Girls wear dresses.

Tell that to my younger self. I would have done anything to get out of wearing a dress, I wore trouser suits to weddings and formal occasions and as soon as trousers were introduced in my primary school as uniform that was all I wore and I was much happier as a result, happiness is surely more beneficial for learning rather than some odd regimented view that girls HAVE to wear X and boys HAVE to wear Y.

Your problem is that you see girls and boys as two homogenous masses, rather than individuals in their own right.