To think drunks waste a lot of NHS money during the weekends

[Dindipoop]

I know I'm being unreasonable, and know that every person deserves treatment no matter what, but I had to go to A&E yesterday after a tooth infection left me vomiting, with cold shivers and dizziness. I thought it was the beginning of sepsis, which turned out to be right.

Last night, whilst I waited with a drip attached to my arm, and feeling really shit, 3 different people, drunk, and one of them came along with 3 family members with a spar bag full of goodies and snacks. They were sat talking, making crude and racist jokes and burping. I managed to give them a death stare and they stopped, but still carried on with the eating and burping and taking advantage of the hospital's free coffee and tea.

One of the drunks, was constantly walking about and talking incoherently even though he couldn't balance. At point he fell right in my feet and almost pulled the canula out of my arm. After this he was taken to a cubicle and made to stay there.

The third, was a woman with vomit all down her leg, she'd been seen by the doctor and just sat there and then exclaimed she was free to go home but carried on sitting there because buses didn't start until 5am. It was 3am by then and the waiting area was getting busier with only a few seats available.

It was absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe how a&e was being treated like a playground and family day out by them.

[Firesuit]

I think the way to handle the A&E burden is that for every person who comes in drunk, charge the cost of their treatment to the bar/restaurant that sold them the booze. This wouldn't discourage anyone from seeking treatment, but would impose costs that would cause the sellers either to pass them on customers, or discourage certain types of customers. Either way, excessive public drinking would reduce.

[Firesuit]

If multiple bars/restaurants sold them the booze, then the last one gets charged.

[Dindipoop]

Last time I was legitimately in a&e though 5 different asain men waked in complaining of chest pains. None of them was having a heart attack, and all was accompanied by about 10 relatives. big sure what was going on there..

So wtf has their race got to do with it? If it's any relevance at all, the person with 3 family members at a&e last night were white, and every other white person had either 1 or 2 family members with them. I'm not white, and I was alone.

[blackcherries]

Ok, as no-one has addressed it, how do you define 'alcohol-induced problems' and what happens if someone contests it? Taxpayers' money used to take it to court?

[ImperialBlether]

Blood test, blackcherries. That will show the alcohol level.

[Sallystyle]

But, U2, the people with sports injuries are trying to keep themselves fit and healthy. If you're pissed out of your head, keeping fit isn't your goal!

Well, sometimes. My husband broke his ankle on Saturday playing a game of football with the children which was a rarity for him as he does not like sports

I have met quite a few regular drinkers in A&E (I'm a HCA) and I wonder if we sorted out our shocking MH care if we wouldn't lower the amount of drunk patients coming in? Sure, there is still plenty of people who come in after a night out as a one off but there are also many regulars who are in and out as you know, with MH issues.

I agree that something needs to be done but I don't think charging them is the way to go and the problems with A&E obviously go much deeper than the drunk patients.

I think your tax idea sounds fantastic.

[graciestocksfield]

People on the whole are actually drinking less alcohol these days, especially younger people.

Most of the NHS budget is spent regularly treating retired people with ongoing health conditions that are common in later life.

[HelenaDove]

Surely its the same faces rocking up at A and E drunk on weekend nights. If they are only drinking on Fri/Sat nights then they can control it surely.

[madein1995]

I think the tax idea is a good one, especially taxing the last bar that served them
Though I don't agree with only treating life threatening injuries on drunks. A dislocated shoulder for eg isn't life threatening, but it's blinking painful and the longer it's left out the longer recovery is. I'm sure that's true of lots of injuries.

I just think it's unwise to put any kind of moral judgement into decisions on who 'deserves' treatment, and a person can be drunk with an injury not caused by drunkeness (mugging, slipping on wet floor etc). I do like the SOS buses though, in my local city they're there giving basic help, bottles of water, free lollipops (sugar rush), cleaning minor cuts and bruises, helping people get home. Freeing up the emergency services for real emergencies but still making sure people are looked after.

[MommaGee]

So I come in with some medical issue, routine blood test done before I see triage. Had a couple of large glasses of wine so I'm over the limit. Lost my bank card (not alcohol related, just bloody useless with bank cards), I'm refused treatment and die two hours later... Hospital is sued and spends more on the case than treating me.

Or i've had a drink, have a medicAl need, realise I could afford a five for the wine but not the £50 for hospital so I leave it overnight until I'm sober but die overnight...

Or do we bill them afterwards and party numerous people lots of money chasing none payers. Do we refuse treatment evenly when sober if they have an outstanding bill?

My friend and I go to the pub, I drink, she drives. Idiot slams into the side of us. She's rescued and treated as she sober bit I have to work out if I can afford for the fire crew top cut me out, the ambulance top transport me and the hospital to treat me?
WhI'dif I try to kill myself with vodka and pills? Do they hold off treatment until I've handed over my card and signed their forms?


However anyone being abusive, disruptive etc in a&e should be removed. If they need treatment police may need to attend. HD less always certain times then you skew the rota accordingly

[MommaGee]

Re charging the last bar - how would you prove it? I might go into another bar and have water but security cameras would show me leaving that bar still drunk

[ImperialBlether]

It's no good suing the bars - the CCTV footage and insurance costs for them would be prohibitive.

Just put a huge tax on the drinks. If you don't drink, you pay less tax. If you drink a lot (and therefore more likely to need medical attention) you've paid more.

You'll still get the odd cases of teenagers drinking a Wkd and going to A&E, but generally it will work out for the best.

You drink, you pay.

[bibbitybobbityyhat]

Smokers, obese people and anorexics tend not to cause havoc, get into fights and injure themselves and other people. A lot of A&E admissions for drunks won't be to help them through the intoxication ... it will be to repair the results of accidents or violence.

[FreeNiki]

All of you speaking of road accident dont know about the CRU or compensation recovery unit.

Road accidents are usually caused by one.driver.

If a person injured in an accident sues the other driver successfully, the drivers insurers also have to repay the NHS for all the treatment given. the reason being why should the nhs pay for an accident caused by someone else.

[EmeraldScorn]

Valentine - "If you're a smoker and you get lung cancer you should be paying the cost of treatment"......

Really? OK then and if you want to be a mother and get pregnant you should pay the costs associated with antenatal care. The NHS is not free, we pay for it because the health service receive the second largest monetary chunk of each individual's tax contribution.

I have to also bring to your attention the not-so-little matter of the profit that the government are making from smokers, do you know how much it is?? Roughly 12 billion per year, trust me SMOKERS WELL AND TRULY ARE PUTTING MORE IN TO THE NHS THAN COSTING IT.

[Cantseethewoods]

The issue is that nearly all illnesses have lifestyle factors, so where do you stop? There is a causational relationship between being overweight and many cancers, diabetes etc. as well as smoking/ drinking etc. Are we going to start charging overweight people?

It doesnt matter if you cost A&E nothing due to being a responsible drinker if you then spend 20 years having community nurses dress your diabetic ulcers or having multiple rounds of chemo.

Personally I dont think we should charge for contributory negligence but I also dont think NHS should be totally free at point of use as there are so many time wasters/ resource wasters around.

[OhtoblazeswithElvira]

I don't think anyone should be denied treatment. That would be barbaric. Just breathalyse / do a blood test during assessment and if alcohol is present, charge a fixed amount. That should make at least some binge drinkers think twice - this thread is about weekend binge drinkers.

[Valentine2]

emerald
Are you trying to compare pregnancy to lung cancer? that's about as out of the world as possible. And your argument will go a long way you know? For example, do you know how much of the world wealth is in the hands of a few people and how it "trickles" down to us?
It's mind boggling. For all I know, you could be suffering from anything literally. Did I include that?

[blackcherries]

Ok, as no-one has addressed it, how do you define 'alcohol-induced problems' and what happens if someone contests it? Taxpayers' money used to take it to court?

Blood test, blackcherries. That will show the alcohol level.

Yes... obviously you can test alcohol levels. How do you test whether someone knowingly and willingly consumed that level of alcohol and whether anything that happens after consuming a set level of alcohol is 'caused' by it?

[toffeeboffin]

If they charged even £20 up front for admittance to A&E they would soon sort the men from the boys.

People seriously take the piss with the NHS, it's not a bottomless pit as we are all quickly discovering!

I remember going out 15 years ago and there were ambulances and police waiting around town for incidents to happen which they inevitably did. Fighting, drunken people etc etc

As a pp said they wouldn't have anything to do otherwise!

[HopeClearwater]

Meek so you were a special and different kind of drunk in A&E? I've heard it all now.

The thing is, the UK is a drinking society. The constant jokes about gin and prosecco on here and wherever you find British women pretty much prove that. So you're going to get the outliers who can't cope, and they're going to end up in A&E at some point. Just like you did.

[MommaGee]

So what happens when someone didn't have that£20 on them toffee and they die things steps in front of the security guard.

[MommaGee]

On the

[toffeeboffin]

Reckon the staff would be able to tell if someone was near death or just rather arsed, momma.

[MommaGee]

So you're going to triage on things door then with a cash tin? And nor from looking at someone no. You don't know if that fight is just a broken nose or internal bleeding from looking. So they at least need triage. So you decide its not fatal so they need top hand over £20? What if its not fatal bit serious? Do they come back in8 hours for free sober treatment??

The point is the idea is unworkable . If there are issues with behavior it needs to be dealt with separately. If its not a&e worthy send them home after triage