Neighbour noise/ mess and selling flat - cont...

[chompychompychompchomp]

Hello
I started a thread a couple of months ago about my neighbours and their constant noise and mess - a reminder:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2828956-Elderly-neighbours-revolting-noise-and-how-to-deal-with-it

Our flat is now on the market and yesterday, we had an open day. For about an hour, around 20 people visited as we sat in our other neighbour's front room opposite.

After, feedback from our estate agent was positive (it's a popular area and we're pricing realistically) and some have already requested a second viewing.

However, the EA commented that the man next door was coughing, sneezing and shouting the entire time. It was really loud and viewers commented on it. He said the second viewers commented on wanting to see if the noise can be heard next week when they view the property again. I think they all just thought he was unwell but don't realise the noise is heard all day and night, every single day and night.

In a way, I'm happy that others have noticed and think that it's loud. My anxiety levels are through the roof presently what with putting the flat on the market and being made to jump out of my skin throughout the day whenever he makes his noises.

The mess is still a huge issue too. I have spoken with them both to ask f they could hoover sometimes, sharing the work is only fair, etc. When I pointed out bits of rice, cabbage, onion and what looked like public hair in clumps outside their door they said it wasn't theirs and must've blown in through the window...This I can deal with, we'll just clean it up before people view. But the noise - I can't control this...help!

Should we speak to him/ his wife? What would we say? This could jeopardise our sale. I knew this would happen

[specialsubject]

I think you say they are tenants, and they make a mess in the communal areas. That is probably a tenancy breach.

You could have a chat with the letting agent first, if there was one . look up the address on right move to identify the agency.

This does rely on the landlord wanting to do something, and even if he does decide to evict it can take up to a year. But if they went, would you want to stay?

[abbsisspartacus]

Why didn't you put soundproofing in? The do it at b&q it's not a huge expense

[Whatthefudger]

The thing is, in answer to your question. How do you prove it wasn't a known issue? That's where the sticking point will be.

It probably will never ever happen anyway. But if you bought a house/flat and realised the noise was keeping you up and you knew that the neighbours next door were there when your Sellers were there you'd be pretty pissed off. It's horrible because, no, why should you have to stay there and deal with that but on the other hand I feel you should be honest about it

[chompychompychompchomp]

Neighbours rent so they may move out soon. Since we've lived here, people have only tended to stay a couple of years or so, but we can't wait for that to happen just on the offchance.

If new buyers complain and decide to sue then how do they prove that it was a known issue when we sold? How can hey prove we deemed the noise unreasonable?

I know it's awful to pass this problem on to someone else but we can't just choose to stay living here in order to protect others from having to live here. Would anyone actually do that?

Thought about mentioning that they are quite elderly and sometimes need a little help to clean up outside their flat. And that he has been unwell recently - which is true - he's got allergies apparently.

[Whatthefudger]

No you don't.. buut a lot of solicitors are starting to raise that as a new standard enquiry. So if you get asked it you must give the info. Tbh it's a grey area and you're right that you only have to declare it if you've made a formal complaint/involved another party, but the grey area works both ways. It protects you from having to declare it on the pi form, however it also can protect your buyer if they realise the issue when they move in. They can sue you with quite a long time bar. But you are right about the formal declaraction but I'm imho it's a lot better to be upfront

[TeaCake5]

Feel sorry for the poor sods who end up buying your place when there is a known noise and mess issue.

[chompychompychompchomp]

As part of the contract protocol forms that get sent as the legal pack to a buyer, you must answer a couple of specific questions about your neighbours and whether you've had any issues at all. A lot of buyers solicitors will standardly ask the question about neighbourly noise

But looking on MSE, it appears legally you only have to declare neighbour noise if you've officially reported it to the council or their landlord. We have done neither, and even though there may be a moral obligation to inform potential buyers, I don't think we have to. Not really 100% sure on this however.

[Whatthefudger]

As part of the contract protocol forms that get sent as the legal pack to a buyer, you must answer a couple of specific questions about your neighbours and whether you've had any issues at all. A lot of buyers solicitors will standardly ask the question about neighbourly noise.

It's a bit of a shite situation to be in

[Kiroro]

Ugh this is such a shit situation :-(

[ijustwannadance]

Slide a box of antihistamines under their front door.

[chompychompychompchomp]

Having just read about the hot tub shaggers, I think my problems pale in comparison ...

[chompychompychompchomp]

geekyboo
Yes, we have asked them if he was unwell as we could hear him coughing/ clearing this lungs and vomiting loudly throughout the day and night, and it was keeping us from sleeping and waking us up at 4.30 each morning. His wife said he was allergic to dust. And that their flat was dusty. And then she walked away.
They are not reasonable people. They also sweep leftover food outside their door into the communal area, toe nails and balls of hair. This I pointed out to them as well as she acted if there was nothing there. Looked at the piles of dirt and food and then looked back at me as if I was crazy!
They do not seem to care if their actions are socially acceptable or not.

[geekyboo]

Sorry if this has already been suggested before but have you asked your neighbours to curtail the volume of their bodily noises if it isn't down to medical problems? Maybe explain how unpleasant you find it/how its causing anti social behaviour/not socially acceptable?

[chompychompychompchomp]

sizeofalentil - spitting contests

Thank you. I think the flat will sell regardless. A buy to letter won't be as bothered by things like that.

[chompychompychompchomp]

Thanks Supermagicsmile and Bellatrix

I think we'll just let it all happen naturally. A potential buyer probably visits a property three times before making an offer (that's what we did anyway), the likelihood of them hearing his noises during all or one of those times is very high.

I don't feel bad about 'passing on the problem' as what's the alternative? Stay here and put up with it just to save anyone else from having to?! That WOULD be weird!

And I've sort of done my bit for society by posting on here anyway, anyone reading this thread who views a flat in the next month or so and hears such noises, is informed - you have been warned...!

[sizeofalentil]

And honestly - our neighbours are loud! They must be in their 70s and have raucous drinks parties and what sounds like coughing / spitting contests. But we figured it would mean they'd be more tolerant of us.

[sizeofalentil]

Don't get me wrong - I do feel awful for you, but I think the kindest thing to do would just let potential buyers see it as it is, and not worry too much.

We bought our house despite the noise (I figured we'd make worse noises with all our DIY, pets, arguments and potential kids / I can sleep through the worst 6am phlegm sounds) - we even ended up paying over asking price because we got in a bidding war with another buyer.

What I'm trying to say is don't minimise it / try and bundle the old folk out - just hope it doesn't put the more serious buyers off. It really won't be a deal breaker to a lot of people.

[ijustwannadance]

I feel sorry for their landlord too. Lovely newly renovated flat is probably filthy now if they won't hoover.
The whole dust allergy stuff is a load of tosh too. Modern vacuums are fabulous. Sweeping up the dust manually is far worse!

Hopefully you can sell your flat soon.

[BeIIatrix]

I do completely sympathise and can imagine the impact this is having on you - anxiety wise

The noises he makes, they may not be as big a deal to someone else - what I mean is we all have different thresholds. So don't feel you are just 'passing the buck'...you are doing what you need to do..for you

When I was a bit younger, I remember my friend coming to visit me, and complaining bitterly about visitor noise from the flat next door, proclaiming she could possibly not live in such a place. and I was like ''what noise?'' (the walls were paper thin) I had become so accustomed to these random noises, they were almost comforting to know there were other people around as I lived alone - it suited me

[Supermagicsmile]

Let them ale their own minds up, say nothing!

[chompychompychompchomp]

I know! People I've told have thought I've been massively overreacting until they come round and hear the commotion for themselves.

The thing is, if the viewers who heard the noise yesterday have requested a second viewing and they hear it again, they won't be interested any longer....

[ems137]

I think you'd sound a bit weird if you (as the owner) turned to me (buyer) and said oh by the way, him next door sneezes a bit loudly!

I certainly wouldn't mention it to any prospective buyers and you are under no obligation to do so.

[chompychompychompchomp]

If you get them to go out you'll actively be tricking potential buyers in yo buying a problem property. I really don't think it's fair to try and mask this issue to palm your awful neighbours off on someone else.

So what do we do? Tell the estate agent to tell people at the time of viewing? If so, what exactly do we ask him to say? I'm being serious - we really need advice on this.

[sizeofalentil]

And I say this as someone who has elderly South Eastern neighbours who make the same vile noises day send night.