to read my son's text messages?

[Mobile2405]

DH and I cannot agree.

He thinks that we shouldn't, unless we tell him that we will be keeping an eye on what he does on his phone and even then, he will just delete messages, so he thinks we should put the trust into him and into talking to him, etc.

I don't think there's an issue with having a quick peek to make sure that he is speaking to people we know/make sure he is speaking age appropriately.

Who is BU?

[nixnjj]

If the mother of one child had checked her daughters phone she would have realised she was self harming.
If either parent of another had checked his phone they would have realised how their divorce, fighting and eagerness to date was effecting his mental health.
Another would have realised her daughter was being bullied.
Another would have realised that expecting a 14 year old having to look after her 5 younger siblings left her no time to do her homework resulting in the poor child having nearly daily detentions.

I've found that if kids don't feel they can talk to their parents they tend to speak to their friends and a regular check of group chats can fairly quickly pick up issues.

[user1484317265]

That's your messed up story, its not most kids. And I bet you weren't 11.

[kali110]

It's def not fantasy children having a second phone, i got another one from my friend and this was nearly 20 years ago!(when phones were bricks lol) admittedly my parents knew i had it but it would have been easy to hide it if i'd wanted too..

[Floofborksnootandboop]

I've never felt the need to check my DCs phones, now 14, 16, 18 and 19, I had an open and honest relationship with them so they trusted me if they ever got into something bad. It worked out fine for us but I do understand it might not for everyone though.

If ever had needed to do it I would've been upfront about it and not tried to hide it. I don't think it right to be doing behind their backs and downloading things without their knowledge.

[user1484317265]

As long as you have parental controls on your internet so porn can't be watched by accident then why would you want to read their messages?

What on earth do those two things have to do with each other? They aren't even related?

I do worry about the ability of some parents to supervise their children with technology they (the parents) understand very little of. Your kids can run rings around you if you don't learn enough.

[FrameyMcFrame]

As long as you have parental controls on your internet so porn can't be watched by accident then why would you want to read their messages?

[ailPartout]

they think the phone is private, but it isn't. Very, very ethically different to telling them that you'll be monitoring their usage because as a parent you need to keep them safe.

A definition you feel is necessary to make!

[user1484317265]

I wonder if the people who agree with covert surveillance of DCs phones on this thread also agree with government surveillance of adult internet and phone use. It's almost like a small-scale version of the liberty/security question

It isn't. They are children, we are adults. They need the attention, we do not. But whether you like it or not, its the price you pay for using the technology.

All this stuff about how if you check up on them it makes them sneaky, you need to trust them. I do trust them, I trust that my normal sensible parent surveillance will not make them sneak about. If you really think your teens will get illicit burner phones and so on, you clearly don't trust them at all. And for good reason, since you must have very sneaky untrustworthy kids!

[CancellyMcChequeface]

I think it's a fair comparison, in that some people might hold privacy to be a more important value than others. I don't disagree at all that parents should be able to look at their children's phones and what they're doing online. That's being a responsible parent. What I disagree with is doing it covertly, which is an invasion of privacy - they think the phone is private, but it isn't. Very, very ethically different to telling them that you'll be monitoring their usage because as a parent you need to keep them safe.

[cheval]

If the consensus for stopping prying is 13, what do you think happens then? They generally get up to far worse mid teens then when they're 11.
I used to take sneak peaks onto teenagers' facebook pages if they inadvertently left it on. Most was dull, some was hair raising. It gave an insight to their lives and relationships that were interesting, but ultimately not helpful. Best not to look I discovered.

[ailPartout]

I wonder if the people who agree with covert surveillance of DCs phones on this thread also agree with government surveillance of adult internet and phone use. It's almost like a small-scale version of the liberty/security question.

As I said earlier, I'm a computer geek. I'm much better placed than the majority to check out my children's internet usage. I'm also more likely to communicate without the government knowing. It's all a game of cat and mouse. Neither side can win: it can just take either side a little longer to evade monitoring or intercept the communication. For the government and parents, time is not on their side.

To compare the two, really?

The OP is talking about children?

[DesignedForLife]

Does anyone else have experience of this from the other side?

My parents never spied on my online life, they wouldn't have known how to. However when I was 16 our computer crashed whilst I was on it and I went to bed. Next day my parents booted it up and my msn chat came up. That's how they discovered my very serious self harm problem and realised just how suicidal I was. They promptly got me help, changed their tactics with me, and much to my dismay pulled out the internet overnight. I don't doubt it saved my life.

What your dad did was wrong, and I wouldn't personally condone something like a spying app as I think trust is more important, but kids need boundaries and guide and need to be kept in check. I don't know what the solution is to be honest though.

[ButteredToastAndStrawberryJam]

I wonder if the people who agree with covert surveillance of DCs phones on this thread also agree with government surveillance of adult internet and phone use. It's almost like a small-scale version of the liberty/security question.

I agree, it'll be a case of "well if you've got nothing to hide"

Sorry you went through that, awful.

[CancellyMcChequeface]

Does anyone else have experience of this from the other side? When I was about 12 my dad started recording all the calls on our landline without my knowledge. I never discussed anything worrying or dangerous - lots of silly preteen stuff though including swearing, conversations about dieting, periods, crushes, speculative conversations about drugs, etc. I felt so embarrassed and betrayed when I learnt that he'd been able to listen to it all (although with hindsight I doubt that he did more than check occasionally, since listening to hours of it would have been incredibly boring!) And I found out less than a year later. If it had gone on until I was older (16? 18?) I doubt I'd ever have been able to trust him again when I learnt the truth.

I wonder if the people who agree with covert surveillance of DCs phones on this thread also agree with government surveillance of adult internet and phone use. It's almost like a small-scale version of the liberty/security question.

[nixnjj]

Deal when my son got a phone was that I have access to check. He's shown me how to work Instagram, snapchat etc. We're close and I know most of his mates. If he's busy and phone buzzes he ask me to get it and often reply for him. Standing jokes that I'm his PA and I don't need to put the phone to my ear to answer FaceTime. Have seen worrying messages, girls self harming, problems with parents and advise him on how to help them. Seems to work as now have his friends coming to me for advice, hot chocolate and hugs. Trust and respect is a two way street.

[Motherfuckers]

It is really hard to know what to do for the best, because obviously at 11 they need monitoring, but I agree with your DH that it will only encourage him to delete messages. Most teenagers I know who have been monitored by their parents have developed ways to protect their privacy, such as only using snapchat etc, so there is no record.

[janinlondon]

Most of the kids I know with second phones got them from other kids - old phones being passed around. Often with contracts still running or set up through the other child's/family's accounts. Some have admittedly got them through dodgier methods.

[ailPartout]

helpfulperson

Mac addresses are added via a whitelist to our router.

Yes, they could have burner phones using 3 or 4G, but unlikely. They have very limited income.

They could spoof the Mac address. They could brute force the router. They could tie me up and torture me to get the router admin password... it's all fairly unlikely. As it is, I'm likely to have access to every keypress they make on their (DP provided) devices and internet for a good while.

[Witchend]

Definitely at that age.

I volunteer in a primary age group activity and we discovered a couple of months back that they were communicating on whattsap. There was a nasty group set up (called "IdontlikeX") and a couple of pictures you really don't want sharing...

It got out because one of the children got quite upset about the content, but didn't want to say anything because they thought they'd be in trouble. They had been added to the group by a friend who knew their number. Some of the other children had been getting upset too, but again they didn't want to be the tale teller and thought they would be in trouble too.
If the parents had checked it could have been sorted out much sooner and easier.

[user1484317265]

11 year olds have secret second phones they keep hidden from parents? How do they pay for them?
I think you're in the realms of fantasy now.

It's not that hard to keep a proper eye on what they are up to, and if you don't then frankly thats neglectful in this day and age.

[helpfulperson]

ailpartout - no, you may know about everything they do online on devices you know about on your wifi. You have no way at all of knowing what they do on phones you don't know exist, on public wifi, possibly using an alias. Or via their mates accounts.

[ailPartout]

Safety of their own volitio is more important than checking up on them.

I will know every single thing my children do online (the benefits of being techy) until they're 16 or so. Maybe 17. I've no doubt it'll mean pretending I don't know about a couple of things but that's the choice I've made.

The problem is, if he wanted to hide something from you as he knows there's a chance you'll check later on, he can easily delete things (history, second log ins etc).

I also advise my parents to be 'friends' with their children on Facebook or whatever else. Children tend to forget that they're there but it enables you to easily see what they're posting.

[Tanith]

The sooner children learn that their messages are public property, the better.

The internet is not a private and personal space and should never be viewed as such. Your mum reading what you've typed is the very least of it!

[helpfulperson]

The problem is that people are talking about checking texts and facebook. Which isn't the primary means of communication these days. Whats App, Instagram etc are also becoming old hat. It's hard to keep up with what they are using . Assuming that is of course that it is being done on the phone you are aware of not the secret phone you know nothing about. Don't rely on checking - concentrate on keeping the channels of communication open and set a good example in your own on line life eg use of mumsnet etc.

[Italiangreyhound]

We pay the bill, and the phone is in my name. So I tell DD I will check her internet and messages. I do it about once a month. I check first then I tell her and we check together. I do this so that if there were anything 'odd' I can check and compose myself etc. I check with her because her spelling is appalling (seriously) and I am worried sometimes she may get into problems due to mistakes.

I know my dd would like total privacy but she has a phone we pay for, which I never had at 12, and the potential for bullying/friendship problems/sexting/and the whole kit and kaboodle is just too big for me to ignore the phone.

BUT for me it goes both ways, she, my husband and my six year old son are all welcome to read my texts anytime they like. They would all be bored rigid!