To put the fear of God into MIL by politely threatening not to visit as often?

[Mybiggoldbag]

DH comes from a country in the Far East and the PILS still live there. It is MIL's constant lament that DH did not marry a woman from his country and therefore return to the fold, when really DH was living in the U.K. when I met him and would still be regardless of if we had met or not.

Because MIL always gets upset that DH and our DC live away from her, we visit as much as we can and we stay for quite a long time (between 2-4 months a year.) The DC are 2yo and 6mo so we are not bound by school yet and DH and I both work for ourselves. PILs flat is medium sized two bedroom on a fifth floor in a city. It is very child unfriendly with lots of little ornaments, marble floors, precious China and no space to run.

DH's brother visits far less often with his DC. Maybe for one week in the summer. As a result, PILs cling to every word he says, are endlessly grateful for tiny gestures or phone calls and idealise his life - you get the picture.

Anyway I have been driven really mad this visit (we have been here 3.5 weeks now, living in the same flat with PILs.) DD who is 2 has developed some problems with sleeping. Some would say because we have changed her environment so much she is feeling unsettled and because this flat is not conducive to children. Every evening it is a battle to get her into bed - we can start bedtime at 7pm and she will still not be in bed until gone 12 midnight or later. She also wakes up in the night and cries, waking everyone up. Last night was the worst - we were up all night with her in our room, where she was refusing to sleep, even in our bed. I am also BF-ing 6mo who will also cry a lot in the early morning.

Every time this happens, PILs start saying things like "oh you're making her/them cry again." And "it is never like this with your brother's children. They always just go straight to bed." And the worst - "you don't know how to raise children."

We have been lectured over the last 48 hours by PILs about what bad parents we are. MIL has told us we are on our phones too much and not paying attention to the DC (we really aren't compared to most, but to her generation it probably seems excessive.) She has said we don't have a routine (we do, but environmental factors here, plus 6 of us squashed in this 2 bedroom flat make it hard to implement.) She has (again) told us how hard she had it when DH and his brother were small. Much, much worse than me, apparently. That she never took a break, she was completely alone. And here we are not even able to get our 2yo into bed when she was building fires and skinning rabbits etc. Always the comparisons with DH's brother and DH's brothers children keep cropping up too.

DH is being v reasonable with her, politely disagreeing, reassuring her we have a routine, that we'll look less at our phones, listening to her stories of the long cold nights she spent alone with two boys with only scratchy cardigans she knitted herself to keep them warm (FIL was away a lot and they were very poor.)

AIBU to tell her that we are obviously causing them too much disturbance and we will reduce our visits to just a week in the summer, like DH's brother and his children? I want her to realise that she has to take the rough with the smooth if she wants us here. And that she should not let the fact we lay ourselves bare to her by uprooting our lives and staying with them for several months a year, mean that she has a right to criticise and judge?

[Dutch1e]

Maybe she only moans about your DH not marrying someone local because she's secretly thrilled at the idea of you all having your own house nearby and not spending a third of the year in their flat

[Alpies]

As a side note, my MIL is Chinese and all she does is criticise. She is a rude, aggressive, thoughtless and hurtful person and I am told that apparently 'she doesn't mean it in a bad way, that's just they way she is' hnmmmmmmm...... Not sure if ur MIL is Chinese too but if she is, that's very much their personality. I've learned to ignore her or simply repeat her comments back to her which makes her look bad. You will never change her, that's the way she is. Find a way to make your stay more enjoyable for everyone by limiting the amount of time u spend under her roof.

[Alpies]

My parents live abroad and I visit for at least a month every year but they have given us the use of the apartment next door which makes a huge difference. As much as I love my parents and they help me enormously with the kids, I couldn't imagine living all together with 2 babies in the mix. Plus it would mean OH and I never get our own space. We make the apartment our 'base' and book a few days here n there to nice hotels or weekends away. Maybe you could try doing the same? Use this opportunity to travel and go visit other places so u get some space as living in such cramped accommodations with someone who is not particularly fond of u must be emotionally draining. Plus u r breastfeeding and probably not getting enough sleep so every little comment must be getting on your nerves even more so.

I won't even stay with my ILs even though they have invited us as it would mean all living under the same roof. I need space.

I would say fair play to you though to go to a different culture and be stuck in someone's house who clearly would have preferred someone else as their DIL can't be fun. Try to convince DH to take you away to visit other touristy places. Accommodations r quite cheap in Far East.

[Foxysoxy01]

It doesn't really sound like she wants you there at all
Are you sure that she is happy with the arrangement and not just too worried to suggest a shorter stay?

I would cut the trip short now and before you go have a sit down and rearrange a shorter stay for next time (much shorter! Say a week maybe 2) you could use pre school as an excuse or just tell the truth that you are all clearly finding it too much especially with young children that are starting to be more mobile and vocal etc etc

[Inertia]

No need to frame it as a threat. As previous posters have said, it isn't working out to have the 6 of you living in a small flat for extended periods of time. The solution is to come for shorter visits, but pay to stay in an apartment of your own when you visit.

[Quintessing]

MIL always gets upset that DH and our DC live away from her,

This seriously does not mean she wants a family of 4 to move in with her for months at the time, screaming baby and boisterous toddler, while the parents just get on with working from home, in their 2 bed flat.

I am not sure what on earth gave you the idea that this would be good?

What she wants is for her son, and his family to live nearby so they can have a normal family relationship, not for her home to be taken over! She probably dread you coming!

[Iwasjustabouttosaythat]

I did this with my MIL. And SIL. It worked a treat!

For years I didn't get along with the pair of them. They used to whisper about me or ignore me, but then nice as pie as soon as DP walked in.

MIL came to visit and basically said she was just putting up with me as we obviously weren't going to split (15 years together at this point) but she didn't have to like it. SIL had always been awful.

So then we were invited to stay at SIL's house for MIL's 60th. A week in the middle of nowhere with absolutely no escape and them both being horrible to me. I put my foot down. I said we'd stay in the city and travel out for a few hours only to visit them for the party then byeee!

It was a clear power play and there was a bit of back and forth. DP told SIL the reason because they were being very pushy so there was no way they weren't aware of why they wouldn't be seeing much of beloved DS/DB.

Don't get me wrong - I told him to go by himself and have a good time but he wanted them to know we come as a package. I didn't like putting him in the middle but after 15 years something had to give.

Anyway! After he told SIL the reason there were assurances the behaviour wouldn't continue. Things instantly got better, it being clear MIL was aware she lost the power play.

I'm not happy it had to happen that way but it did and it worked out for the best.

Stuff has happened since and MIL and I get along really well now. She finally bothered to get to know me and turns out I'm actually not bad and her DS picked his life partner pretty well. I wonder though how much more damage would have been done if I hadn't made a plan to stop the rubbish once and for all.

All that said! In my situation they were being deliberate nasty and could call that off any time and just be civil. In your case they may actually be trying to be helpful and you might end up hurting essentially good people? I'd still do something though. Yes you need to respect their cultural background but they need to respect you too and STFU sometimes.

[Rixera]

Agree with LaContessa, it's very much in Chinese culture to just criticise. Obviously there are exceptions but my Chinese relatives will very flatly criticise and it's not meant as an insult. 'you wear too much makeup, your lips look tiny' vs 'you need more makeup. Your eyes look plain.' is supposed to be helpful, for example. 'you are lazy, stop chatting and go study' and 'that exam was a fluke, you don't work hard enough for A's' are followed up with hearty congratulations and celebrations when all the exams are done and you've passed.

With child raising all this criticism will seem to have paid off when the child is a polite and successful adult. In the mean time you won't be able to do right for doing wrong! Doesn't mean they don't love or appreciate you though.

[FilledSoda]

What an uncomfortable situation for everyone concerned.
Rent somewhere close by before the situation worsens.

[MeadowHay]

A lot of people commenting on this are not so helpful I think because they don't understand what it's like to be in a situation like this. People saying "I only stay with my in-laws for a week max, that is way too long shock horror" don't understand what it's like to have family living very far away abroad I think, or to be from cultures where it's actually quite common for large, extended families to live together on a permanent basis. When I was a child we would go abroad for 4-6 weeks the three of us with my parents to stay with our grandparents abroad in the middle east. We couldn't stay longer because of my dad's job and as we got older because of school. We would often all 5 of us have to sleep on the floor in one bedroom side by side. But that was normal for us and for them. Likewise we had 2-3 from there come and stay with my parents who had two children in a small 2 bed house for up to 9 months at a time sometimes (long story lol). It was cramped, it was tough, and tempers did flare, but in other parts of the world this is all seen as normal. So I think if you don't understand as you've never lived through anything like it your comments of "I would only stay a week" are useless. My mum probably would have said that before she met my dad and then ended up flying 3 kids 6 and under to the middle east on her own and staying a month in one room with them when she doesn't even speak the local language just so we could see our extended family.

I also agree that the criticism seems to be more culturally acceptable in certain cultures. My dad definitely thinks he can say whatever he wants to me, DH, and my siblings and that we should listen to him and do what he says even though we are all adults. Likewise his dad is still like that to him! But in his culture that's seen as normal and acceptable. Unfortunately the problem with MN is lots of people reply to threads where cultural differences are a significant factor and they have no understanding of those differences so their input whilst well-meaning is not particularly useful.

[Cornishclio]

I agree with others. To stay with relatives for 4 months in a 2 bed flat is way too much. No wonder your 2 year old is unsettled. If you can afford to rent somewhere close by this is what I would do and regardless I would not stay for months. 2 weeks once a year is more than enough for such a long distance. Let them come over to the UK and stay somewhere if they want to visit.

[altiara]

I can see why you titled your OP this way but it's not really about putting the fear of god into her, it's more about you and DH standing up for yourselves during the constant criticism and trying to find a way to have a relationship with the in laws. I personally would stop the 2-4 month visits. It is not working for you and your DCs. There are good suggestions about renting somewhere so you have your own space but maybe do this as a 1-2 week holiday and only once or twice/year depending on what you can afford and your businesses, and also make sure you explore the area DH is from, don't make it a sit in someone else's home holiday/working from their home. (My Mum visits her home country and they just sit around eating and visiting more relatives and she gets bored so that's why I've said that).
I'd also let go of the guilt (I think?) that MIL is pushing onto you, it was DHs choice to marry you, if he was single he wouldn't be spending months living with his parents. In the same way you are making adjustments for DH, he should do the same for you and if it's not your culture to spend this amount of time with the in laws then say so, again - he chose to marry you (and you married him not PIL!). Seeing them every year for a week or two is a good compromise.

Btw if you're used to travelling with a baby then go somewhere exciting (or not exciting, just anywhere really!) make the most of it before DCs are school age.

[Quintessing]

She probably does NOT want you there, by the sounds of it.

Or rather, she wants you nearby, in your own flat.

[JustSpeakSense]

Your visits to PIL are too frequent and too long. The kids are unhappy, parents unhappy and it doesn't sound like PIL are too happy either.

[Christmassnake]

Why put yourself and yr kids through that....why don't you visit once a yr when it suits you and let them visit you....also yr kids will be in pre school and school in the future so factor that In now...i.e. Only visit when schools are off

[BurningBridges]

So are you saying that if she was nice to you, you would continue these visits? I think they're untenable, so you need to make plans to return home now - do you have pre-booked flights and can you change them?

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I would just change to visiting for a fortnight or so. It will seem so easy and pleasant compared to 2-4 mths! As you mentioned in a few years you will be bound to school holiday times anyway.

You must be a saint to cope with these conditions and all those family relationships for so long with two small children!

[1horatio]

4 months?! You live with MIL up to 4 months a year?

I couldn't stand it. Visit less often and/or rent an apartment?

[CruCru]

I think you may need to change your mindset before you do anything else. From your OP, I have assumed that your PILs live in a country where, traditionally, you would all live together. Therefore, you (or, rather, your husband) are trying to compensate for that not being the case and it isn't working very well.

A two month visit would be too long, even if you were visiting someone you got on brilliantly with all the time.

Realistically, even if you loved it, it wouldn't be able to continue as your kids will be in school soon enough.

[Saracen]

Just a thought - are you entirely sure that your PILs actually want you to stay for so long? How do you know this?

I agree with others who have said it is very very challenging to stay in such cramped child-unfriendly conditions for any length of time at all. I used to do it for six weeks, and despite having a very supportive family, it was still really hard and stressful. Hard on parents, hard on kids, hard on hosts.

As your kids get older, more adventurous, more in need of exploring and exercising and the younger one becomes mobile, it is only going to get worse. You can't do this again. You need to find another solution - shorter visit, rent a flat nearby, have PILs visit you, all of you rent a big house somewhere together.

I can see how your in-laws' criticism is driving you mad, but all of you would still struggle even if everyone behaved perfectly. The real problem here is the situation you've all got yourselves into.

[AmberEars]

I think YABU to make that threat just to upset your MIL if you don't really mean it (which is what your thread title seems to imply).

But YANBU to think of ways to make this work better, which may involve shorter visits or some of the other ideas up thread. What does your DH think?

[PansyGiraffe]

Hi user1483526282

Welcome to Mumsnet. It might be better if you reposted your question on another talk topic as a new post - how about this one? People may not see it here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/parenting

[Mix56]

Don't say anything, Once you are home & she asks about the next visit tell her that as from now, your Dc will be getting into a rhythm ready for play school/school & you won't be able to do extended stays... visit once a year for a week, like the other DS

[LittleBearPad]

User1483 I suggest you start your own thread