DF says I am overreacting about something normal ....Am I BU? **Abuse trigger warning** [added by MNHQ]

[justwannaaskaquestion]

Ok...This is probably going to sound a bit silly and trivial and I had to gather up some courage posting this. I am on medication for OCD which I have suffered with since early childhood so tend to ruminate on certain issues which seem small to other people. Anyway. Basically, when I was a young teenager (14ish I think?) I was on a trip abroad and I was followed by a much older man who started touching me between my legs and trying to put his finegrs somewhere where he shouldn't. He didn't penetrate me as I was wearing trousers, but his fingers were moving like they were trying to get inside me. I know that probably sounds weird. It went on for ages- I was a shy kid and too embarassed to yell. I felt like I was frozen, like I couldn't move.
Well, some time much later I remember bringing it up in a conversation about rape/sexual assault. For some reason I just blurted out "I've been attacked." My parents were astonished. My father demanded that i explain myself. So i told them about what happened to me all that time ago. He then started telling me "Don't be so stupid! you only got your bottom pinched! like every girl does! It isn't abuse!" He said if i went to the police they would laugh and told me it was a normal part of life.
My relationship with my father wasn't great when I wa syoung. He was sometime sphysically and verbally abusive often using threats and shame to keep us under his control. I don't want to out myself but I was raised in a religion which is very traditional and women were expected to obey without question. At the time, being a sensitive and slightly narcissistic teenager (later diagnosed with Emotionally Unstable PD and OCD) I considered that my dad was being an abusive arsehole.
But I look back on this situation and am wondering whether he was right and i was just being a bratty self pitying teenager. What happened to me wa sunpleasant and awful but it cannot be compared to sexual assault. I feel a bit guilty because I had a problem self harming and with food when I was growing up- it started aged 7 or 8 and I didn't want to give those coping issues up so hid behind the abuse thing- making out to my counsellors and psychs that it must have been sexual assault that made me like I was. In reality i know it was nothing of the kind.
I feel guilt over this but I know I can't put it right or change the past. I just wish I could forget about it. I know this incident didn't afffect my life really- I have had it suggested to me that I may have Complex PTSD and I agree but that was to do with growing up in a family where my father used violence on us and I was bullied at primary school- silly things like name calling, exclusion, trying to pull my pants down etc. I don't know why I ruminate on this incident. I felt hurt by what my DF said and wonder if I should volunteer at Rape Crisis so I can learn to empathise with people who really have been sexually abused? Maybe it could be my way of putting it in perspective?

[P00pchute]

OP, being a woman that frequently attends gigs, and has done from about the age of 14, I can totally understand what you are saying. When it is unexpected or unsolicited behaviour, it's very easy to freeze and do nothing. It's happened to me many times, over the years, so many times that in a way you become conditioned to expect it and just brush it off. It genuinely never occurred to me until now (at age 35) it was sexual assault to have your breasts and genitals groped by a stranger in those circumstances. In many of those cases, you were tightly packed into a crowd, unable to move, and not even able to see the person who was doing it. As a shy nervous person, I was sometimes worried about causing a scene or looking 'uptight.' Looking back as an adult, I would be horrified to think of my daughter being in that situation.

[Italiangreyhound]

justwannaaskaquestion I am so sorry what happened when you were 14 and when you were at school at 10/11 were both sexual assault. Your father and your teacher have failed you horribly by not believing you.

"I wonder what it is about me that invited such weird behaviour from men? "

NOTHING, it is not about you, it is about the man/boys. The victims of sexual abuse are ranged from young children to old ladies, rich and poor, black and white, all religions and groups. It is nothing to do with you and everything to do with them.

Your opening post minimizes the bullying, "... I was bullied at primary school- silly things like name calling, exclusion, trying to pull my pants down etc."

Those aren't silly things, they can be soul destroying. Plus "I may have Complex PTSD and I agree but that was to do with growing up in a family where my father used violence on us."

I think you need some very good counselling for Complex PTSD if that is what your doctor has diagnosed or whatever your doctor thinks.

Have a read up on some things that are offered on the NHS and speak to your GP. I have read good things about EMDR but have no experience of it.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Post-traumatic-stress-disorder/Pages/Treatment.aspx

EMDR is mentioned here on the NHS

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Counselling/Pages/Talking-therapies.aspx

and in this article...

EMDR Therapy: Why Looking Left-To-Right Repeatedly Could Banish Traumatic Memories

BUT I am not a doctor and have no idea if this is right for you. I did have CBT for anxiety almost 20 years ago and it was very helpful and banished my anxiety. I also have OCD as a teenager, which I never got sorted and which morphed into an eating disorder, which I am now having counselling for.

I have not had any experiences like you and I am so sorry you have suffered this. I'm a Christian and not all Christian believe or think like your dad, who sounds awful. I am so sorry but I hope, sincerely, that you will get the help you need.

[KnittedBlanketHoles]

I'm sorry, buy is these experiences were sexualities assault and it absolutely wasn't your fault or anything you did to invite them.

[Baylisiana]

I am sorry you went through this OP. I think sometimes these things can be more terrifying as a young girl because they can be harder to process and understand. Something not that bad at all happened to me when I was about 12/13 and I was scared every time I left the house alone for about a year, and even after that I felt sick if I saw that man for a few years. I think I had it out of perspective because I was young. Your experience is assault and the incident at school sounds really traumatic. It isn't you, it's them!

[tallwivglasses]

Similar happened to me at 14. And after being flashed at several times I wondered if it was me that was doing something to attract these weirdos. The fact is you were a young woman and these horrible men felt entitled to do what they did. It saddens me that for so many of us our first 'sexual' experiences are so exploitative. Your dad's talking shite btw.

[DJBaggySmalls]

But I look back on this situation and am wondering whether he was right and i was just being a bratty self pitying teenager. What happened to me wa sunpleasant and awful but it cannot be compared to sexual assault.

I dont know why you feel that way. Or what your definition of sexual assault would be, if not this. I think you would benefit from Rape Crisis counselling.

like every girl does! It isn't abuse!" He said if i went to the police they would laugh and told me it was a normal part of life.
I'm not sure why you would agree with this view. Would you tell your daughter this?

[StrangeLookingParasite]

I wonder what it is about me that invited such weird behaviour from men?

It's not you. It's them. There are so many of us.
I got my bum pinched for the first time by a freak on the tram. I was 11. Not me; him. I'd like to go back in time and kick him in the balls.

[ConvincingLiar]

I think abusers can spot vulnerability and target it, that's not you inviting abuse.

[dollydaydream114]

I wonder what it is about me that invited such weird behaviour from men?

It's nothing 'about you'. None of this your fault. It's horrible luck that you've had two such unpleasant experiences, and your father has behaved very badly by minimising/denying what happened to you.

Your father is not only wrong when he says that what happened you wasn't assault - it completely and utterly is sexual assault; it's not even up for debate - but he's also wrong in thinking that pinching a woman's bum isn't assault.

[Blu]

There is nothing about you that 'invited' abusive or bullying behaviour of any kind.

It is a further effect of emotional abuse that makes you feel it may be so.

Everyone looking in from the outside -us- knows it is not your fault.

[justwannaaskaquestion]

I did post a few months ago on mumsnet about the first experience when i was 10 but much later i decided to delete that account. Since Christmas I have been lurking on Mumsnet- I love the lighthearted chat threads- it has become a bit of an addiction. Can't remember what my username was then.

[justwannaaskaquestion]

Thanks so much everyone for your kind responses. ANd to those of you who have gone through sexual assault too, I send you compassion and healing safe hugs. When I was at primary school, something also happened with a couple of boys in my year- I thinbk they wanted to frighten me- they had been bullying me for a while- They basically threatened me with locking me in a stationary cupboard unless I showed them my body. I think I was about 10 or 11. i refused - Hated dark small spaces but they would only let me out if i showed them. They shoved me on the floor and then tried to pull my underwear off. I fought them. I went home with bruises on me- My mum went in to tell the school- the teacher basically said I must be lying. I decided I would just forget the incident forever. Only lately It has been coming into my mind a lot. I wonder what it is about me that invited such weird behaviour from men? I have never been able to even have a smear test (sorry TMI) without freaking out. I did lose my virginity in my late teens (after all, I wasn't pure anymore, was I?) but I hated it and see no point in marriage and children. I just am not wired that way. I have my animals and friends and that is all the company I need.

[MattBerrysHair]

When something awful like sexual assault happens (and it definitely was in your case OP), sometimes the most trauma can come not from the event itself, but from experiencing rejection and ridicule by supposed loved ones upon revealing the original event. No wonder you have struggled, your parents have let you down massively and shamed you. The shame should be theirs for not nurturing and protecting you. You needed love and support and you didn't get it. Perhaps some counselling would benefit you to process your childhood, and turn your feelings of shame and guilt into something more healthy.

[FinallyReportedHim2]

That was assault, I'm so sorry it happened to you. It wasn't your fault.

I agree with other posters, look into counselling options if you think it might help.

[MeetTheMartian]

I'm really sorry but yes you were assaulted. :(
And your father is acting like a lots of men who think that touching a woman bum is ok. When it is NOT.

The person who has an issue here is your dad.

Agree about ringing Rape Crisis and getting some counselling with them. They are great!

And btw don't worry about having use this incident as an 'excuse'. I get the feeling that there was so much going on in your life that it was the safest way for you to address (or in that case not address) those issues. It happens. Not everyone is ready to face very hard, difficult issues just because they are sat in front of a counsellor. And you have nothing to feel guilty about.

[RhodaBorrocks]

I'm so sorry, but yes, you were assaulted. This happened to my sister at a similar age and even though the man who did it was found to be mentally unwell, he was still held fully responsible, convicted and sentenced.

Your (D)F is abusive in his actions and reactions towards you.

[Truckingalong]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Yes it was sexual assault. You did not ask for it or do anything to encourage it. It was not your fault.

[Miserylovescompany2]

You were a child, touched in a very inappropriate way. Yes, I'd agree with others, it was a sexually motivated assault. Nothing less. Your father was VERY wrong in dismissing it as anything other. By the sounds of things you've had to contend with a great deal. Putting labels aside, you deserve to be valued as a person. I sincerely hope you find some calmness. I'd be putting your negative father on pause and concentrating on getting where you need to be...

[Blu]

Yes, you were sexually assaulted, and whilst, sadly, that type of groping is actually common (it happened to me, and almost every other person I knew when I was a teenager) any loving, kind protective father would have been outraged on your behalf, and offered support and sympathy. Where was your mother in the conversation?

It was completely emotionally abusive and misogynistic of your father to try and normalise such horrible abuse, and to blame you as victim, calling you stupid.

How could you ever trust either of your parents again, to be on your side, to look out for your interests, to act in a normal, kind, loving way?

I am sorry your father was violent, and controlling, using religion to control you and keep you in a state of submission and fear.

No wonder you have felt the lifelong effects of this.

Your father is an abusive monster.

[Arkhamasylum]

It was definitely assault. It sounds like your father couldn't cope with it and so turned on you instead. Unforgivable from an adult in that situation. It's a huge abuse of trust. I'm so sorry

[intheknickersoftime]

This happened to me when I was at school. I was 12. It was a boy of about 16. It was violent, designed to humiliate me and the other boys who were with him were laughing. I'm really sorry. I still struggle to get perspective on it and I'm 46 now. I do think it affected my confidence at school. I can remember fantasising about killing them. I never told anyone.

[Pettywoman]

Yes it absolutely was sexual assault. It happened to me too. I was watching the Tour de France on the Champs Elysées and a bloke behind me did the same to me although I was in a skirt. It was fucking horrible and not only that I had to move from my hard won good viewing spot. Arsehole.

I hope you manage to work through this. It sounds like you've had to put up with quite a bit from different people in your life.

[Rainydayspending]

It was assault AND you're bound to struggle with your confidence in declaring that etc when it sounds as though you were raised by someone at worst abusive and completely dismissive of you, your feelings and experiences.
You're worth more than accepting guilt for how someone else has behaved and made you feel.

Rape counselling / counselling for you may be helpful. AFTER you have dealt with those issues you may feel volunteering would be for you. I am sure you'd be very supporti r too. Just take care of you first.

[Lambzig]

I work with rape crisis for what that's worth and feel it was most certainly sexual assault and that given your age (14), definitions for child sexual abuse apply. NSPCC definition includes "sexual touching of any part of the body whether the child is wearing clothes or not".

I also wanted to say that there really isn't a scale of ok sexual assault to bad sexual assault, what you describe is horrible. I am sorry this happened to you.

If you think it might help, please do give rape crisisba call.

[lionheart]

Sorry this happened to you and that your experience was not acknowledged by those who should have been there to stand up for you and give their support.

It was sexual assault.