Moral dilemma - WWYD and AIBU to just say sod its.

[rabbit12345]

Back story. Fell out with sister who I was very close to in summer (have spoken about this before) she has stopped contact. I did everything to try and resolve it but she was too angry to want to resolve. I used to do a lot for my sister. I helped her out several times financially and physically. It hurt so much that she wanted to hang onto the one time I couldn't be there for her instead of realising all the times I was there at the drop of the hat.
For context I work full time, attend college and have 5dc so it was simply a situation that slipped my mind and nothing sinister in my part.

Because of this I have resolved to treat as treated.

I also have a brother who lives with my parents 35 years old. My brother is fine but makes no effort with us at all. He only visits our house if he comes with parents and it is the only way he will be fed. I was recently very ill and in hospital and didn't get so much as a text from him. I have had one text from him in 2 years and that was because he needed something. I get on with him fine when I visit my parents but that is the only time I have contact. It's not something I can approach him with as he is very sensitive and like Sister will result in a huge argument.

It is very much expected from parents that he be considered in everything. For example if my parents come to mine and we offer them a meal, they will say no because Db will be wanting dinner. Christmas they will not visit as Db does not want to and they will not leave him alone for an hour.

So here's the dillema. I "feel" like I want to say enough is enough. I have already decided not to go visiting and I am considering not even bothering getting my brother a present (this will not go down well) when he cannot even send a card or a text wishing us a merry Christmas. However my nature is telling me that I am being a huge bitch as he hasn't actually "done" anything nasty he just doesn't seem to care.

I am fully prepared to be told I am being unreasonable in light of my argument with my sister and that I am taking it out on brother. I promise I am not doing that. I am just evaluating the relationships in my life and self preserving myself.

WWYD?

[bunnylove99]

OP. I don't have any words of wisdom but just wanted to say I feel for you. Your family sound like really hard work and no support to you at all.

[DeepanKrispanEven]

Good grief, I've just read why your sister fell out with you. My brother made no contact whatsoever with my children when they went to university, and it never once occurred to me that he should. Your sister's behaviour is utterly bizarre, and really your parents should be telling her to grow up and stop being stupid. They should of course also be telling your brother to grow up and get his own home.

To be honest, in your shoes I'd just decide to spend Christmas with my own family, get presents for your parents alone, and forget the lot of them.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

I couldn't agree more, ThumbWitches. Why on earth should the OP bother her arse to try to make up with people who have shown absolutely zero interest in making up with her, or rebuilding relationships with her??

What SnatchedPencil said only applies when all parties in the relationship are decent enough to want to make up, and to make some effort towards it. As it stands, though, Snatched seems to think that the OP should make 100% of the effort, and I do not agree with that.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

snatchedpencil - I was like reading most of your post.

Of course, you might have a valid point but frankly, I think it's just as likely that the brother in this scenario is a lazy sod who quite likes living at home and having mummy and daddy running around looking after him. If he actually gave a shit, he could quite probably get more work - he managed to get enough of a job to fund his hobby when his parents stopped doing it!
He can cook when he wants to - but why should he when his mum/ sister will do it for him? LAZY.

The OP HAS tried to reconcile with her sister - the sister's complaint is pathetic in the first place - no really, it is, did you read it up-thread? - so banging her head against that particular brick wall is rather pointless. She tried A LOT - not once, not twice, but repeatedly. There comes a time when one has to decide that the headache simply isn't worth it - and the OP has done that, which is fair enough.

I think YOU are being highly judgemental of the OP - perhaps you have a similar situation in your own family, but you're on the other end of it? Who knows.

[BarbarianMum]

OP I think you will be a lot happier if you stop running round trying to please these people. You've done it for a long time, they are not grateful and you are resentful. Your situation with your brother is similar to mine. My father also tried to insist that he be invited everywhere with us and lavished with gifts even though he never reciprocated in any way. We (eventually) said enough is enough and felt much better for it.

[ElBandito]

Poor punctuation there, my brother did NOT marry my mum!

[ElBandito]

There's a degree of chauvinism here as well. Sons are never quite expected to give in the way daughters are. When my brother married my mum asked me what I was going to buy his wife for Christmas. I replied that I might get the same thing brother had always bought my husband of 6 years, nothing.
Mum had never really noticed. Of course, being a people pleasing woman I actually bought her chocolates and once again my husband got nothing.

[SnatchedPencil]

I would say live and let live. You really don't need the hassle of falling out with the rest of your family. Your parents want you to include your brother in the arrangements, what is wrong with that? They probably see that you have fallen out with your sister and don't want the same thing to happen with your brother.

I will try to phrase this so it doesn't sound unnecessarily cruel or blunt, because it's not meant to sound that way. You say that your door is open, that you want reconciliation with your sister - but frankly you sound like you have given up on her. "Leaving the door open" is not always enough, if you want reconciliation you need to be proactive about it and accept that you will probably face many rebuttals. Is it worth the bother? Only you can decide. Just don't let yourself believe that it is all your sister's fault.

With your brother, you describe him as "inherently selfish" and that he has no mental health issues. I am looking in from the outside of course, but it is highly likely that a 35 year old man, living with his parents, who has not had a proper job for a decade will indeed have mental health issues. One cannot live under those circumstances for that long without having such problems - whether they are cause or effect is a different matter, but they will be there nevertheless. You might not see the issues because you only see him when he visits with your parents; men are masters at hiding mental health problems and putting on a brave face, especially for short periods.

Try to be less judgemental of your siblings. You seem to have decided that you are "right" and they are "wrong" - quite possibly this is true. But try to see things from their points of view.

Your sister is hurt because she feels you let her down. This may be unfair but humans are great at applying a "negative filter" - it is much easier to remember the bad things than the good, because they are what hurts. To passively hope for reconciliation with her is not enough. You need to repeatedly seek reconciliation and be prepared for setbacks along the way.

With your brother, he needs help. He sees himself as a failure, living at home, no job, at 35. He is, in a word, useless. A failure. He makes no contribution to society. Maybe he can cook but he has no faith in his ability to do it well so relies on others. This is not your problem, but ostracising him further will be unlikely to make him change his ways. He needs your support, not your scorn.

Only you can decide whether it is worth the bother.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

"All you can do is to shield your heart from further hurt."

This is the heart of it, Francis - you couldn't have put it better.

People like the OP - decent, caring people - put themselves last, and put up with awful behaviour from selfish, self-centred people like the OP's family - and they do it because they place a value on relationships (a far higher value than the people who are mistreating them and spoiling the relationship). They want happy relationships, and can end up putting their own needs last in an effort to make relationships happy when there is no positive contribution from the other party/parties.

They need to focus their attention on the relationships that give them pleasure, happiness and support - but they see that as being selfish, and don't do it.

OP - you deserve happy, loving, supportive relationships - put your effort into nurturing those in your life, and don't worry about putting only minimal effort into the relationships with your sister and brother. Basically, why should you put so much more effort into the relationship than they do?

[CheeseCakeSunflowers]

As I'm sure most people know Aspergers/ASD is a spectrum disorder so everyone is different. The old saying "when you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person " is very true so comparing the op's DB with other people on the spectrum is not really helpful. I think the problem here is more with your DP's, I'm sure they are trying to do their best, I am also the parent of someone with ASD but I have realised that I have to push my DS into doing things at times, (yes, I know that might not be the case for all ASD people) I am very aware that one day I will not be around to help him and it is my duty to prepare him for that day.
I fully understand that the thought of the fallout they might get if they try and do this might be more than they can bear and that is probably why they go along with things.
As far as the present goes I feel it is them who will suffer most if you don't buy anything for your DB without explaining why, as they will be the ones left to deal with the fallout. A NT person would realise why you are doing it, some ASD people would, but some would just not understand. I think it would be much better for you to contact your DB, maybe by email and make the situation plain, say something like. "I am feeling disappointed that you usually do not buy anything for me at Christmas as I would like a present from you. Will you be buying me anything this year, please let me know as if not I think it would be fair if I didn't buy you anything. Love from etc." I know this sounds very infantile and I am writing based on my knowledge of what works for my DS, your DB will be different but if you know him well you will know if this is an appropriate approach.

[AcrossthePond55]

I think I remember your prior thread.

I agree with PPs who've said to carry on for Xmas by buying him something small then start pulling back after the New Year. I'm sure you'll get 'push back' from your parents but at least you'll be able to spread your 'tactical retreat' over a few months.

Someone above mentioned the shock to your brother after your parents die. Possibly. Just keep in the back of your mind that they may very well leave him everything they have rather than dividing it up equally (as they should) because 'he needs it and you and/or your sister are doing fine'. I've seen that exact thing happen and it was very hurtful to the sibling that was left nothing because she 'was doing ok' as she worked full time and her sister 'had nothing' chose to be a lazy arse and sponge off their parents. Did her sister share because this was so unfair? Not a penny nor a crumb.

[rabbit12345]

Love, that was the start. It has escalated from there and now DSIS has a list as long as her arm. When I found out that she was hurt by this, I apologised only for her to have another reason and then another. In the end I said that I would do whatever I could to ensure our next meeting went well to which she replied "fine but if your DH thinks he can........." I realised then that I had to leave her to it.

[rabbit12345]

Cauli, I have done all I feel able to in trying to resolve it with her but my door is always open Without condition.

[Love51]

Is your sister really upset about the phone thing, or is it a front? I cant imagine dns uni experience being marred by lack of a call from his aunt!

[CauliflowerSqueeze]

Would you like the relationship back with your sister?

[Love51]

The present thing with DB - does he get for your kids? My kids child free aunts and uncles get presents for them, but not for me and dh, we get for the aunts and uncles. Convention we have established is that if/when they have kids we will stop getting for them and start getting for the kids (I know its not for everyone, but a few of us had babies /acquired step kids all at the same time, and present buying escalated). Or do your mum and dad stick his name on their present? (which would grate with me!) If he does nothing at all in the way of present, they can't call you out on not getting him one without huge hypocrisy! Surely they would realise!

[ollieplimsoles]

The more updates I read the more awful they sound...

[namechange102]

Sorry OP, but your family sound a bit dysfunctional. Can't believe your d's got the hump over a text! Disown the lot of them for your own peace of mind!

[Brewdolf]

I remember your other post rabbit. It seemed ridiculous at the time and even more so now she's cut you off. You should enjoy the peace .

There's that expression, you don't give to receive. You seem like the sort of person who wouldn't feel good not giving, so the box of chocolates/minimum effort thing seems best for you.

It seems like your DPs are the ones at the root of this, and like happy says you've been set up to be the scapegoat. Everything is ok as long as you all fulfill your allotted roles. You fell out of character temporarily and that's send shockwaves. But that arrangement isn't healthy. Take care of yourself and your DC above anyone else.

[HarryPottersMagicWand]

I am being assessed for aspergers and I am very thoughtful, too much as when I don't get the same back from my siblings, I don't understand why they don't care (or don't show it).

I stopped buying one of my sister's years ago. She shows up once a year with my dad, eats our good, sits on her phone hungover, ignored my DCs, doesn't get them so much as some sweets then leaves again until the next year. I don't give a crap if my dad doesn't like that I make no effort with her, she is selfish and I stopped bothering after years of doing stuff with her as a child and teen and she turned around and told me I never did anything for her. I didn't realise I was obliged plus that as crap, I always did. I refused to again and it for worse from that on. I don't want her here for Christmas but she invites herself with our dad and it is expected she is welcome when she isn't really. Just because a happen to share some blood, doesn't mean that arenice people and I am happy to cut people off based on the fact that if we weren't related, i'd have nothing to go with them.and I also won't be made to feel badby family members that favour this relative either (out dad, he would say he doesn't by he really does).

[Confusednotcom]

You could always ring your nephew to check how he's settling, hopefully you can still have a good relationship with him

[Confusednotcom]

If you saw your family in s fim what would you advise yourself to do? I would back right off from everyone and focus on the good things in your life, presumably DC job and college. Your DSis is being hugely unreasonable and I think you should tell her so, nicely but firmly. Point out all the good stuff you've done, say she's being out of order to take issue with you and she should apologise IMO. Brother sounds like a lost cause and if your parents want to coddle him at the expense of seeing you it's their loss. Keep clear boundaries.