To wonder where all the money is going?

[malificent7]

So welfare and public services are being cut?
So why do we need to borrow 122 billion ?
Brexit administration?
So cuts are not freeing up much cash. I'm confused.... Can someone elaborate.

If it is Brexit them pissed off that my tax is paying for it.

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

The economy of countries is not the same as household economies. Austerity is doomed to failure.
To stimulate the post-war economy the government invested in things. This raised employment and living standards.
In my opinion what 'should' happen is when the private economy stalls (as now) the public economy should up spending. It should then be reduced in times of boom (but still occur as public works will still be necessary). This isn't what happens.
At the minute a lot of leaders talk about trickle down economics. It doesn't work. Give the rich a tax break and they save it. Give the people at the bottom a tax break and they actually spend it and stimulate the economy.

[CoolCarrie]

Well said DoctorDonnaNoble.

[DryIce]

Surely when you spend less, you save more, thus borrow less.

Government spending is not like our household budgets. Their income is derived from taxes and national insurance. When you have wage freezes and employment issues, their income goes down as there are less people working or earning as much.

I've never understood the principle behind austerity. In my opinion, if you invest in the country (I.e. spend), the economy kicks up and everyone benefits. If you think of it in family terms, like spending money on your kids education which has long term financial benefits for the family as a whole.

Stopping spending for the sake of 'paying off debt' (which, in any case, has only been increasing!) is a very short term policy. I don't want my government to have a massive savings account, their money should be going to benefit everyone, not hoarded

[TheSultanofPingu]

Housing benefit
Pensions
Tax cuts for the wealthy
Allowing big buisnesses to get out of paying their share in tax.

[tshirtsuntan]

The way the debt is growing I assumed the government are borrowing from wonga.

[TheNaze73]

I have no idea how Gordon Brown sleeps

[TheSultanofPingu]

Also, austerity doesn't work. It just means that the least well off have less to spend, which is bad for the economy. George Osborne's austerity plan was designed as a distraction. Blame the poor for the economic mess we're in so that they forget about the rich, allowing them to get richer.

[TheSultanofPingu]

Oh yes TheNaze. Evil old Gordon Brown. Totally responsible for the worldwide economic crash
I do agree that he got some things wrong, but what this lot have done since getting into power is far worse.

[ChanglingNight]

Thank you doctor that was just what I was coming to say.

Micro and macro economics are not the same thing, voters need to be aware of the difference, and how the language of micro economics being applied to macro is manipulating voters. Even the IMF recommended the last government increase public spending by 2% not use auserity measures to help us out of the recession, and they are not known for being left wing.

The tories are crippling our country and the rich continue to profit from this.

[Momentumista]

I am simply staggered by the sums of money involved.

And there are people around who have obscene amounts of money - take Bernie Ecclestone, he gave his ex wife £300 million

I know there are rich people, but this is beyond rich.

If these kinds of people all paid were taxed a few million - that would help the debt situation vastly.

I am quite sure his ex wife could have managed comfortably on £299 million.

[ChanglingNight]

And what those before him did was worse for our economy also pingu

[MissMarplesHat]

Spot on doctor

[CockacidalManiac]

DoctorDonnaNoble for Chancellor, please.
Investment in a house building programme (or restoration of the housing stock that's lying abandoned). Stimulate the economy.

And for anyone gullible enought to blame the last labour government, the Tories were going to match their spending.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562023/Tories-vow-to-match-Labour-spending.html

[Colby43443]

The government is preparing for a corporation tax cut to attract business to the uk, is preparing to subsidise the entire stem/pharma/banking industries, spend on infrastructure etc.

[Lateralthinker2016]

Just a random thing to point out.... The government has only just cleared the debts incurred during WWI.... If that gives you an idea?!

[chemicalCat]

DoctorDonna +1.

A nation's finances are not the same as a household's. Keynes talked about the Paradox of Thrift. It makes sense for me to save money when things are tight but if everyone (including the Govt) does it there is less money to go around and everyone ends up worse off. (Probably summarised wrongly.)

It amazes me that the Tories have just reversed their position on the economy - Philip Hammond's statement took the same approach that Ed Balls was pushing at the last election - and they are still seen as the most economically competent of the Parties.

A shame it took the economic vandalism of the Brexit vote to do it.

[LoisWilkersonsLastNerve]

Really lateral? That's eye opening. I think the government just aren't invested enough in long term strategy. Yet another symptom of career politicians, it's about treading water while they are in power then buggering off. Did anyone see the documentary about MOD buildings being sold off for a fraction of what they were worth? Just to satisfy some vote winning pledge to free up land for affordable housing.

[wasonthelist]

We have been living beyond our means for over a decade.

Much, much longer than that, under many different governments.

[wasonthelist]

But as long as politicians can rely on large numbers of voters who believe utter bollocks like "the other lot spent all the money and we're going to mend it", things won't get better any time soon.

Austerity and cuts are an ideological, not a practical response.

[Lateralthinker2016]

Completely agree!
Yes, I remember being shocked about the WWI data... Very highly expensive going into a war- and given this knowledge, incredible how often we get involved in them

[Livelovebehappy]

The NHS is a bottomless money pit. Doesn't seem to matter how much money is thrown at it, it just needs more and more year after year. We have health tourists, people living longer and therefore needing care for illnesses associated with getting old and lots of top heavy management. Can't see how much longer we can sustain the NHS in its current form, but there are no real alternatives other than having a situation like the USA, where everyone has to take out private medical insurance cover.

[chemicalCat]

Here's an interesting blog about debts and deficits which might help. From the The National Institute of Economic and Social Research, an independent think tank.

Summary:
Fact Number 1: UK Public Sector Debt is Not Large
Fact Number 2: Governments Do Not Repay Debt: They Grow Out of It
Fact Number 3: Government Debt Should Not Be Zero. Ever!

[Lateralthinker2016]

This is an interesting thread... Thanks for the links!

[ChanglingNight]

The only other way to NHS isn't the us model, other countries have other ways of managing health care. Like in Holland where everyone takes out private health insurance, yet anyone who can't afford it has it subsidised by the government so everyone has the chance at equal care.

But we 'have' an NHS (to an extent) and it's not straight forward to change an embedded system

[PausingFlatly]

But why would we want to change to a hybrid system, with the huge additional admin costs that entails?

The UK spends less of its GDP on healthcare than the Netherlands: excellent graph and links onwards here.