5 mins late for medical appointment and reaction of HCP

[BooeyBubbleHead]

I am 34 weeks pregnant. Due to an unforeseen traffic diversion followed by a slow moving farm vehicle on a winding road, I arrived 5 minutes late for a medical appointment today. I had left enough time to have been 10 mins early, should it have been a standard journey. I think being on time is important and I would never intend to keep anyone waiting. I was unable to phone ahead as I was driving and do not have hands free, and safe places to stop are few on this route.

This is a very regular appointment and I have never been seen on time - I have always had to wait at least 10 mins after appt time, and sometimes up to 30 minutes. I accept and understand having to wait and have never made it an issue or taken it out on staff; the sheer volume of patients mean that it is inevitable and nobody's fault.

Today, HCP was incredibly offhand with me, and even implied that I was lying when I apologised (sincerely) and explained why I was late. The appointment was rushed and very unpleasant and I felt that I was being punished. There was much passive aggression and hostile body language. I did state that I was offended by her tone but this just made her more argumentative - she needed to have the last word. I arrived feeling stressed and left feeling even more so.

AIBU to expect the same empathy and understanding when running very slightly late, that I give regularly when kept waiting?

Really annoyed and considering making a complaint...

[OhTheRoses]

But the point is jacks and you sound a lovely doctor, is that the patient who has only one appointment with the doctor nay have a myriad of other appointments and commitments. I honestly don't mind waiting 20-30 minutes, I understand that sometimes some patients need more time, as ds did when he was small, but it's the lack of understanding if one is so much as a couple of minutes late when it really and truly can't be helped and the cavalier way some of the support staff behave all too often.

Most of the time the rudeness isn't directly from the doctor but from the nurses and receptionists around them. I can recall four or five really rude doctors in my 56 years, sadly mostly women. And that includes those I relation to the children too. But if one adds in nurses and hca's and reception staff the figure rockets and it's a sad indictment about the state of the NHS. In most other environments people would walk away. I wouldn't patronise hotels, restaurants or sops where staff were as rude. Other professionals I deal with don't have their staff talk to people like that, ie, accountants, solicitors, vets, even my dentist and optician. In France it's better too. I really do think it's because other services aren't free at the,point of delivery. I know the NHS hates that perspective but I think it's true.

[Verbena37]

I think some people on here have commented too harshly.
op try not to worry.
You sincerely apologised and meant it.
The HCP was being narky and I guess puts all late arrivals into the same 'rude' box.

You however, weren't rude and made a point of not being narky towards her about their usual late appointment times.
I think this seems a common thing nationwide, where people are waiting up to an hour over their appointment time yet get told off if they're unavoidably delayed by a couple of minutes.

[EffieIsATrinket]

So where do you see the latecomer if you are running late and the three people after arrived early/on time? If you take them in booked order you get the 'I arrived before her but she was seen first complaints'. If you see everyone in order of arrival the people booked a few slots later who arrived on time (and who you could see on time apart from the latecomer) are then made to wait. If you keep the latecomer waiting til the end of surgery that generally doesn't go down well either.

No excuse for rudeness but it's a minefield!

[unlucky83]

First I would never complain about a GP or in fact any HCP running late. I've been the patient who made everyone late -at the end of a routine appt (and the GP was already running late) I let slip that I was suicidal. She didn't let me go until she was sure I was safe and had organised emergency counselling etc. I was in there 40 mins. I really believe I would be dead now if it wasn't for her.
Having said that understanding does work both ways.
I am usually on time for my GPs. I recently had a year of needing a blood test every week. I was never late . I had a GP appt - I thought it was at 1.30 but it was at 1.20. I realised as I went to get ready to leave at just gone 1pm - it is only a 5 min or so drive - and if I phoned then to cancel they couldn't fill the appt (and they have a running total on display of how much time is wasted by last minute cancellations and DNAs) ....so I rushed off thinking I should just about make it on time. Got stuck behind a dustbin lorry and turned up 5 mins late, was kept waiting in the queue for the receptionist for 2-3 mins -making me max 8 min late.
Sadly it was the horrible, unhelpful receptionist (rest of them are lovely). I apologised for being late and got the full on treatment - she would have to phone the GP to see if they would see me, they probably wouldn't because I was so inconsiderate, being more than 5 min late... next to her as she said that was a sign (they are all over the surgery!) saying if you are more than 10 min late you might not be seen... eventually after lots more grief (no wonder I was waiting so long in the queue) I pointed it out to her and she said 'it is 5 mins'...take a seat and I'll let you know if they will see you.
I joined a crowded waiting room - waited for 30 min after I had arrived, the person next at the desk was my GPs 1.30pm appt ... so no-one had gone in front of me. She didn't tell me if they would see me or not -I was waiting not really knowing if they would see me or not - thought I'd see if they called in their 1.30pm appt. I apologised to the GP for being late as they were apologising to me for keeping me waiting ...

[LineyReborn]

No excuse for rudeness - that's the crux.

[Littlepleasures]

When I was teaching, I always made doctors' appointments for first thing in the morning so I didn't have to take time off work and wouldn't get held up in traffic. Arrived 10 minutes early for my 7am appointment. Surgery still locked up. Getting on for 10 past , receptionist and doctor roll up - separately!- Was a bit pissed as I remembered the same day appointment I had made a few months back, 20 minutes after school finished. Not allowed to have a later one as same day appointments could only be given out in order - Why? - . Nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to get away from lost lunchbox, lost coats conversations with parents, negotiating traffic gridlock around school etc. Was at the most 2 minutes late. Logged in and Sat nearly 45 minutes waiting to be called. When I eventually checked with reception they said they had cancelled my appointment because I was late. Nearly had a meltdown on the spot. Did eventually see the doctor but my blood pressure was well and truly off the scale by this time. I never mind waiting, sometimes up to an hour, for national health and hospital appointments as I truly value access to free health care for all and accept this comes with delays but for health care professionals to assume any lateness on the part of the patient is down to selfishness or laziness does rankle.

[metaphoricus]

Bubble

Fair enough. I have a child with severe LD, and our hosp appointments
came thick and fast.. She has epilepsy and is doubly incontinent and has no speech. So I thought that her hosp appointments would be at the very least, reliable, timewise. They were not. I've waited in line for two hours before I saw the consultant. So you can imagine that waiting for 10 to 20 mins would have been an absolute doddle for me.


I wouldn't have minded waiting a half hour if I was just pregnant.
Waiting for an hour when you have some results to get is a bit worse.
I still think you sound a bit entitled. The NHS are stretched. If you ae late, then they have a right to be pissed off.

P.S. I find it difficult to believe that people wait for such a short time as 20 mins for a hosp appointment. It's usually more like an hour. At least.

[Aderyn2016]

jacks, I'm sorry but I disagree. Like a lot of HCP, you are assuming that you are the only person with back to back appointments in the day and that the patient has nothing else to do with their time apart from wait to see you.
Obviously we understand that you cannot accurately predict how long each patient will need to see you and that you are often dealing with very sick people, so we do wait patiently (for the most part). That is not to say that your patients don't have other very important demands on their time too.

[BooeyBubbleHead]

Again. Waiting 10-30 minutes is not a problem for me - never has been, nor will it ever be. It is not the point of the thread, no mater how much it rankles you that I dint have to wait as long as you do.

Having a HCP dismiss my attempts to apologise for being slightly late and imply that I am lying, then conduct an entire physical appointment with hostility, sniping, passive aggression and a lack of care or respect IS a problem for me.

Just because your daughter's wait times are longer and her condition is different to mine does not make me "entitled" because I expect to be treated with dignity and respect during a medical appointment. It is human nature to wish to be shown kindness, surely?

From the general feedback on this thread, I feel that I ANBU to expect a certain level of professionalism, despite arriving 5 minutes late. I am going to make a complaint about the HCP's conduct.

[BooeyBubbleHead]

Also, I am not "just" pregnant. I have not disclosed the nature of my appointment.

[scaryteacher]

Metaphoricus We are all, in this country, very, VERY, lucky to have the NHS to look after us when we are ill We pay for that service through NI and taxes, so I really don't see that it is 'lucky'. In other countries they have better health care and outcomes than the NHS, and manage to be more organised as well.

[heebiejeebie]

The reason that I often run late is that the pressure on the nhs means that I am seeing 25% more patients in the same clinic time as I was 8 years ago. I either give them 3/4 of an appointment or things run over. If the first person is 10 mins late than that is 10 mins of EVERY OTHER PATIENT's time. The late runners don't sit outside my clinic room and say sorry to the next 12 patients.

[Italiangreyhound]

BooeyBubbleHead of course you are not being unreasonable. It is totally unnecessary for the HCP to treat you rudely because you were late. You were 5 minutes late. It is not a lot, it was not your fault and profesionalism says they should treat you well.

They should have a policy that says a patient can be 5 or 10 minutes late or whatever and failing that people should have to re-book. But whatever happens then they should be polite to you.

"From the general feedback on this thread, I feel that I ANBU to expect a certain level of professionalism, despite arriving 5 minutes late."

Yeah that's am I being unreasonable, which sometimes should be re-named, of course you are why do you need to ask!

YANBU.

[slenderisthenight]

I wonder why all of the people who think so little of the NHS continue to use it?

I'm surprised you have to ask. Because we pay taxes. Because GPs services are difficult to come by privately. Because we are owed what we can get out it, given that we contribute to maintain it.

It's stupid to ask why people who aren't happy with the NHS keep using it. It's not like a supermarket you know. You can't just go to Waitrose instead.

[Cherrysoup]

I refuse to wait more than 20 mins for an appointment. The last two times I went to the Gp surgery, I have left as they kept me waiting for 20 mins. The first time she said that the Dr was running late, I asked if I could rebook with a doctor that does not run late.

Wow, you win the entitled crown 2016! I had many appointments after an accident, at various different hospitals. Not one ran to time, but do you know what, tough shit. Stuff happens, people break down when they're in a bad place (me included) or need more than 5 minutes for scans etc. You have to be aware that when you book an appointment, it is unlikely to be perfect: there are humans involved. YABVVU.

[mustbetimeforacreamtea]

I don't remember a time when I have gone into an appointment on time despite always arriving early. The number of times I have had an apology is less than 5% of those appointments. The impression given is always that your time is far less important than theirs.

When I was pregnant I had to go to an afternoon clinic where the wait was never less than an hour even if you had the first appointment. Turned out this was because the doctors had a ward round in another hospital which wasn't scheduled to finish until after the start of their afternoon appointments and certainly didn't allow for getting to clinic or having lunch. So the clinic could never run to time.

[metaphoricus]

In other countries they have better health care and outcomes than the NHS, and manage to be more organised as well

Well, yes they do. But they charge a massive amount more in taxes in order to make it possible. We have a much lower tax rate in this country than in these excellent healthcare countries.

Have a little think about it. I pay a large amount in taxes, but I'm still not rich enough to pay for private care, In another country, maybe I would.

Taxes are higher in other countries. Their health services are better.
So Duh?

[captainproton]

this reminds me of the time I had an appointment in another town because my local trust refers to them. The hospital is nowhere near public transport, I drove, I gave myself 30 minutes to park. There was literally nowhere to park, 10 minutes before appointment I phoned the hospital reception and asked for advice. I was told to park on the grass, which I did, signs everywhere about cars being fined for doing this. My anxiety was through the rough. I made appointment, which was Actually on time for once. I spent the whole time panicking about a fine, but thankfully I didn't get one.

I don't work but I can't imagine People have all day to wait for appointments. I think a 3 strikes and your out policy should operate, if you are always late you need to get re-referred. You need to get your head in gear, (not OP) I've had to take 3 kids under 4 to many appointments you just have to crack on and focus.

But it works both ways, I've stood in queues for GP emergency appointments, phlebotomy clinics up to 30 minutes before opening time and whoever is opening the doors to reception or alternatively taking the clinic roll up late. People have jobs to go to, it's not fair to make people late, do these people ever get a warning for being late for work?

I reckon there are a lot people who have unnecessary appointments, I've had some when pregnant which have been a complete waste of resources simply because the consultant in the other town has a different computer system than the one in my town. I had to have consultant led care in my last pregnancy, even though my other consultant had told me repeatedly that being pregnant would not affect my condition and that it may improve slightly. But no I was in Kafka nightmare for 9 months as I was being constantly referred by one hospital to another because letters weren't arriving promptly and everything took forever. A simple conversation between 2 consultants could have saved people's time, and put less pressure on services.

[kali110]

I don't think yabu about being rude but i think you are really lucky you were even seen! Mine would have cancelled your app straight away!
I think she was trying to get it through to you the effect being late has on everyonelse.
I wouldn't complain, i'd be happy i was seen.

I can't believe all the posts that 'the doctors are always late'.
They have 10 minutes for each patient! What if a patient needs more than that? It's going to make apps longer! What would you want them to do, kick a really depressed person out just so the apps run quicker?
BlueBlueSkies you know doctors don't want to be running late don't you?
I've waited 2 hours to see my doctor before. She's the hardest one to see, probably because she takes the time to actually help you and doesn't kick out after your time us up. I don't mind waiting.

lunch i'm usually over 20 minutes early

[Italiangreyhound]

Metaforius I am so sorry about the issues with your daughter and the long waits you have experienced.

Re "I still think you sound a bit entitled." Why is it entitled to feel that professionals should not be rude to you. Or accuse one of lying.

And "If you are late, then they have a right to be pissed off." of course we all have a right to feel pissed off or be pissed off, but acting pissed off is another matter.

[ghostwatch]

YANBA she sounds like she is lacking in empathy. I don't trust anyone in the caring profession with a lack of empathy. No need.

[lalalalyra]

She's allowed to be pissed off, but she shouldn't have been rude about it when you apologised and it was just an unusual combination of events.

I refuse to wait more than 20 mins for an appointment. The last two times I went to the Gp surgery, I have left as they kept me waiting for 20 mins. The first time she said that the Dr was running late, I asked if I could rebook with a doctor that does not run late.

You best hope you never need the services of the cancer clinic my relative attends then. They have never been anything less than 90 minutes. At yesterday's clinic they were 2 hours and 15 minutes late. Not through anything bad on the part of the staff, they are just busy and some appointments take longer than expected (we had one a while back where some side effects were so problematic relative ended up having a one hour long appointment).

I always feel really sorry for the staff when someone kicks off. They are doing their best. You never see them sat about doing nothing and you never see them going for a pee, let alone lunch, and yet some people still think it's acceptable to shout and scream at them.

They deal with late comers in two ways - if it's 5 minutes or less then you go into the queue behind all of the people who are already there. If it's more than 5 minutes then you can wait until the end of the day and be seen then - but that also means you can't have any say in who you see. You basically just see the first person who is available, and you are very likely to need to come back the next day to pick up any medication as the pharmacy closes.

There was a man kicking off yesterday because he'd been waiting for 3 hours - he was being extremely unfair in adding on the hour he'd go there early in his wait as that was simply not their fault and a clinic like that is never going to be running an hour early!

[ThisisMrsNicolaHicklin]

I'm a HCP, I had a clinic yesterday. Some people were very late, some people were very early, some people didn't come in at all. Its expected and you learn to manage it. OP's HCP was out of order.

[CPtart]

I'm a practice nurse and YABU. Lateness infuriates me. It means the difference between me getting all my 30 minute lunch in a 9 hour shift, or leaving on time to pick up my DC rom childcare. Everyone has an excuse. The traffic was bad, I lost my keys, I overslept etc etc etc.
Why do you think you are often kept waiting at appointments. Probably because you are paying the cumulative price for other patients turning up late and the. Use being expected to 'squeeze them in'. Not to mention that at least 1/3 people are booked in for one issue and then present three!
Her opinion was unprofessional but I do understand her frustration, we are pushed to the limit as it is. Every minute counts. And at least you apologised whereas many don't.
But you are still BU.

[Trifleorbust]

She isn't being unreasonable at all. She did every reasonable thing to avoid lateness. What time do you expect people to leave the house for an appointment at, say, 1pm? Sometimes lateness is unavoidable. There is no excuse for rudeness and unprofessionalism.