Who should pay childcare?

[wheelwithinawheel]

Ex works mon-fri, I work fri-sun, 50/50 residency of 3DC me: mon 7.45am - Thursday 4.30, every other Saturday night. Separated for a year and and a half.

On 'my' Saturday's, I collect kids after work at 5.30pm, we have tea at my parents and then kids stay over as I have to work early on Sunday, and my parents take DC out and drop then over to ex at 4.30ish.

Until recently the Saturday arrangement with me collecting and DC staying over with my DPs was every week, he insisted that 'technically' EOW but he 'allowed' them to stay at my DPs. I think since seeking legal advice he has changed this and now has DC eery other sat in order to establish a clearer 50/50 split.

Here's the issue: ex financially controlling, and for months has been harassing me for half the cost of childcare for the Friday's. It is his day, youngest DC goes to nursery and same nursery do school pickups and dropoffs. So far I've refused to pay, as I believe that this is childcare he requires as it is his day. I'm right, aren't I? Or aibu?!

[BombadierFritz]

are you happy with your working days and childcare split? do you get to spend much time with them if they are at school/nursery on your days? your ex is being a dick, goes without saying!!, but I just wondered how this arrangement is working for you?

[thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter]

Softkitty2 when DC have two parents who are reasonable then yes the totting up who had who when to the minute could be seen as petty. When one parent has a history of being abusive and controlling this doesn't work - there's no give and take - just take.

wheel I'm so sorry he's making this much harder than it needs to be, I'd start keeping a record of when he's not doing his share of the parenting, try to get as much records of what he's doing as possible - so via text/email as opposed to him calling you if possible. Also you could fire the same question back at him - what kind of father doesn't pay for childcare for his children? I suspect he wanted 50:50 to save having to pay maintenance...

[dungandbother]

Please tell me you're not divorced yet?
There is no way on earth you should have nothing.

At least half the value of the house. More if you stopping working to have children.

[dungandbother]

And very definitely his bill.

I have the same row with my ex who wouldn't do Wed after school collect anymore as he was too lazy to take DC to clubs. Because he really wants to spend quality time with them.

So he said I'll collect them Tues from the childminder at 6.
The childminder I pay for because I'm at work.
He's dragged this on for months and had no mid week contact due to it.

So he's collecting them NEXT TUESDAY AT 3.30. (Yeah, he shouted).
Not unless you pay the childminder £90 I've told him.

[HereIAm20]

He should pay for child care on his days and you pay for childcare on your days

[wheelwithinawheel]

bombadier not great for me - I feel like I don't get much of the quality fun times. I'm in the process of looking to change my hours at work, have made two request already and been turned down (my weekend hours are so antisocial no one wants them!). So not looking hopeful. I've applied for a couple of new jobs, waiting to hear. It could be that the situation changes soon, but I fear that this will cause more hassle when he has to pay out more in childcare if/when the arrangement changes. I just feel so stressed all the time. Already taking antidepressants, not sleeping well, lost a ton of weight (and I really can't spare it! I'm 8st3 at 5"8). There's additional issues of him bringing new women on the scene. There is no acknowledgement from him that any of his behaviour in the marriage contributed to the breakup, and he is very bitter. It's the constant passive aggressive-ness - I'm just ground down, and doubt myself when I think I'm right. It's such a mess. I'm dreading divorce, he's already started playing games with fictional 'loans' from his parents that will of course 'have to be taken into consideration in the settlement'. How do people get through this?

[Babyroobs]

Does either of you claim child tax credits? If so then you should be able to claim help towards childcare costs, so it would make sense to claim that then sort it out betwen you.

[SheldonCRules]

Whoever booked the nursery pays maybe. Who gets the child benefit and tax credits would be fairer.

I can see his point re 50/50 as it enables both of you to work. I disagree that you are saving him costs by having your own children, that's what parents do.

He is not getting off lightly, he has them the same number of days so costs are even bar the childcare costs,

[wheelwithinawheel]

I claim tax credits, but he's put in a counter claim so I think it'll stop. I don't begrudge having the DC any time I possibly can - it comes out sounding really petty, but when I'm being accused of 'charging' him for having the kids taken care of by way of not paying nursery fees, any counter argument comes out sounding terrible. I will look into the tax credits childcare claim. It does feel a bit wrong though, for me to be claiming a benefit on his behalf as it were, when he has a well paid full time job, he has a very cheap mortgage, and can well afford one day of childcare per week. Claiming benefits is not sitting easily with me as it is. Maybe I should pursue that then.

[Trifleorbust]

I really don't the OP should be made to feel bad because she is not willing to subsidise her ex's childcare costs or to do childcare for him. He seems to expect that he can be single or otherwise not in partnership with her, but continue to benefit from her salary and her parents' willingness to help her out with her half of the parenting load. Doesn't work like that, does it? As separate entities, the OP and her ex are now individually responsible for their own parenting.

[Babyroobs]

If you have 50:50 care then only one of you can claim tax credits for the children. Or I think you may be able to claim for one child each if both of your incomes are low enough to be entitled to them. Perhaps he could claim for the one who's childcare costs the most then he could claim the childcare element of wtc ? If he has a well paid job then he may not be entitled, it will depend on his earnings.

[Babyroobs]

He could also look into whether his employer offers the childcare voucher schemw ( many employers do ). It is a salsry sacrifice scheme meaning he could buy childcare vouchers before tax is deducted thus saving 20% on the cost of childcare. It might be worth mentioning to him if he isn't aware.

[cestlavielife]

You get through by getting some professional support eg counselling. ..start with gp for nhs sessions this can really help. You need strategies for dealing with hI'm.
Also solicitor for legal advice.
You need to be sure as to whether he should pay child main tenance or not because of the number of overnights.
If he can easily afford the childcare and the dc with him from the Thursday evening then yes it looks logical the childcare is for him to organize and pay for on Fridays.
If you can claim money back via ctc for childcare then look into that. Who us paying at the moment ? Is he paying and asking you to contribute?

[cestlavielife]

So from your op it look like he has and is paying but is harasing for the money back.
So you can just ignore him.
How is he harassing you is it verbal email text ?
You could just say "I am getting advice on this will let you know " .
Or " I ve had advice and as it s your day then you pay. Sorry." Repeat as needed.
If you going thru divorce he can bring it up in mediation ?

[dungandbother]

Wheel
I think you'd benefit from reading Incompetent husband thread.
And co-parent with a narc.

Clearly he's an abusive prick from the little you have described him.

Get some help from GP and learn how to not let him bully you.
If there were loads from parents then he has to show them being paid into the accounts.

Take an enormous step back from his games and stop interacting with him.

[dungandbother]

*loans

[wheelwithinawheel]

Yes he is currently paying, when he took up using the childcare my housing benefits and working tax credits had not been instated so I was beyond on the breadline. I managed to pay my rent with my wages but was having to wait for the local corner shop to reduce milk to 20p etc. Things were so tight it was frightening. But at that time I physically had no access to any money to give him, so he was forced to pay.

So far, after a talking to by my very wise friend, I've reasoned, tried to make my point but since it's clear that he won't discuss it reasonably I've just repeated and repeated that I won't pay.

We mainly communicate by text, and I try to be as reasonable and polite as possible, and really try to separate my issues with him from our relationship as co-parents of the DC. We're actually not doing too badly in this respect - there are issues and niggles, but ultimately I think we are both on the same page that the DC come first. It's so very hard to see the wood from the trees sometimes though, so I really appreciate all the input from you all.

[Trifleorbust]

Don't respond to any further questions about this from him. One text is sufficient: 'We have already discussed this and I have given you a clear answer. I won't reply to any further texts on the topic.'

[wheelwithinawheel]

So I think - going forward - if I propose to look into offering to look into help with childcare through CTC, and then get him to pay me back? Does this sound like a good compromise? I fear doing this because I do feel it's another way for him to wield financial power over me. I just want to be free of all of that. There's no way with the wage he is on he would be entitled to any help. He is on a very good wage.

[BombadierFritz]

I just wouldnt bother with that. its his day, end of. although you work weekends at the moment, I would think about changing the residency days so you get at least an equitable share of weekend time (assuming at the moment your parents could cover the childcare)

[Trifleorbust]

No, don't offer anything. Just keep saying no.

[Spellcheck]

Honestly - you do not have to pay his childcare costs. He is being ludicrous! I wouldn't dream of asking my ex to cover my costs.
Regarding tax credits - are you only referring to child tax credits? You may qualify for working tax credits, which would be separate. Have you rung and asked them for advice?

[cestlavielife]

If he is on good pay and can easily afford it then don't offer to do anything.
It seems like the balance of money is that he has good salary and low living costs while you are struggling.
So for now it's reasonable and right that he pays.
Don't think it any more
"I won't be discussing this any more" .

[cestlavielife]

You can investigate help with childcare costs so you know about it should you need it on your days. But you don't need to tell him that.
If he doesn't want to pay he will have to cut his work hours or something. His choice.

[wheelwithinawheel]

Currently I claim housing benefit (a contribution - not the whole amount), CTC, WTC and CB. I've had to move much further afield than I would have preferred because of rent cost, so I'm doing a daily journey twice a day of several miles to get them to and from school - so my travelling costs are quite high. Ex intends to submit a counter claim for CTC so I believe this will stop for around a year while it gets sorted. Money is tight, so I'm dreading this. I currently pay all child related costs (uniforms, trips etc). I have zero possessions, every single thing I own has come from gumtree : freeads / things that relatives have been able to spare.

It's a bit of a drip feed I know, but during the marriage our financial arrangements were, shall we say, 'weighted' to his favour. He'd pay £500 into my account which would need to cover food, kids clothing, petrol, my debt from uni (then around £2000). If I needed extra I could ask, but he'd sulk, pull faces and worry me so much about our finances that I was afraid to. I funded my own maternity leaves (x2). When my car broke down and was irreparable, my dad bought a new one for me, and the second time my dad and my redundancy payment bought a new (very cheap, second hand) car. This is while he replaced his sporty number with a merc, followed by a 'family' 7-seater which he then took to work alone every day while I struggled with 3 kids in a tiny banger doing all school runs etc. There was sexual 'abuse' (control?) too.

I'm just trying to illustrate (maybe justify to myself?) that things really were unequal. Now I've left, and that inequality is still biting. I just want to move on without being beholden any more.