AIBU to think they just can't do this? Just basically lost my job :(

[TheWitTank]

Please help wise people of MN. Z
Just left work for the day and I'm a bit shell shocked and tearful. Boss came to see me and basically has said they can't accommodate my hours anymore (9am-2.30pm 4 days a week) and that I need to change to what they need (8am-5.30pm 3 days a week) or I haven't got a job. For some background, I changed my hours to my current ones back in June due to childcare issues. Employer accepted this on a trial basis for one month -I haven't heard anything since and it seemed to work, so thought it was all ok. Now, 4 months later, boss has changed his mind. I signed a contract with my new hours. It is impossible for me to do the new hours. No possible solutions. What do I do? I really need my job, but I can't do it. I'm looking frantically through ads as I wait for my DD but there isn't anything suitable. I have until Monday to decide what to do. Please help -what are my rights? I will ring ACAS when I'm home, but I need some encouraging words to stop me bawling.

[TheWitTank]

Yes, I do work school holidays. DH and I book holidays (not together!) to cover these and my family do help when they can.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

How is it sex discrimination?

[LittlePaintBox]

Don't let them panic you, and talk to ACAS (and union if you're in one). I wouldn't personally recommend it, because it would cause me a lot of stress, but I once saw someone spin out her period of notice when her contract ended for months by simply refusing to discuss terms and insisting on having the union in on any discussion. Your employer won't want to engage in any form of litigation and it sounds as if their procedure is all over the place.

Very sorry for your situation, I've had several jobs fold up on me unexpectedly and it's the most awful feeling :-( xxxxxxx

[sandragreen]

Are you a union member? They will be well placed to advise you.

Hope you get it sorted

[HermioneJeanGranger]

Ask for their reasons in writing and take it to ACAS.

[Stopyourhavering]

I'd also mention about the fact you've had no payslips for months....that's also very suspect

[Mia1415]

Is there an HR department there? How big is the company?

I'm an HR Manager and they can't just change your hours like that. If you have signed a contract with the new hours and have been working them with no issues, then they can't just change this overnight (or a weekend!).

To alter your hours (legally) they would have to consult with you and worse case if you did not agree they could serve you notice of the change and then potentially dismiss and re-engage you. They would also need to have a solid business reason for doing this.

[Catzpyjamas]

There's good advice on Working Families website. Hope you get things sorted.

[LooseBerry]

It may come down to the needs of the business however there are timescales which employers must stick to when dealing with a flexible working request. I'm not at work at the mo, but from memory they have 3 months from request to completion (including any appeal). I'd look at whether they fully dealt with the application because it sounds like they didn't follow through after the trial period - if you have an HR rep to check in with they may be able to confirm the facts. Good luck though. In my experience the needs of the business will come first and it's easy for an employer to categories their refusal into any category they wish.

[sophiestew]

My union were brilliant when I had a problem like this (flexible working agreement under threat) so agree best to speak to them if you are a member.

[Catzpyjamas]

From the above link:
If your contract specifies particular hours of work then these arrangements can normally only be changed with your agreement. Even if your employer gives you something official looking saying “notice of variation of your contract” or something similar they usually still need to get your agreement to the change, or give you notice to end your old contract. If your employer ends your old contract you may be able to claim unfair dismissal.

[cathf]

Speaking as an employer here, who has been through a similar thing with a member of staff.
The bottom line is that if your employer can demonstrate the needs of the business mean that the hours you want are no longer possible, there is not a lot you can do.
PP are correct that you can request flexible working and your employer must consider it, but does not have to allow it if the business would suffer.
In our case, we were a small company starting out, and we took on a couple of staff on hours that suited them, from 9.30-2.30.
As we grew, it became necessary to change the hours from 8am-4pm. We were prepared to consider part-time working in line with the existing number of hours worked, but the starting time was non-negotiable, as we operate a workflow that involved everyone starting at the same time.
One of our workers would not consider this, and in the end, had to go. As long as you give adequate notice (whatever is in your contract) you can change staff hours when you want.
There is no claim for unfair dismissal as you have given the correct notice and the fact you have a contract with the hours you want to work is immaterial, I am afraid.
I know it's harsh, but at the end of the day, the business is there to serve its customers, not fit round its staff's childcare needs.
Sorry OP :(

[cathf]

Reading back from PP, the consent thing is a bit of a red herring.
If you don't give your consent your employer will give you your notice, after the consultation period is over and agreement not reached.

[secrethideaway]

Don't bother with Acas they are a waste of space except for directing you to general guidance you can find yourself using google. Look for a reputable law firm specialising in employment law and make an appointment to see the asap.

Limit discussion with your employer until you have done that and don't agree to anything or make any statements until you have advice. It's fine to let your employer know you need and intend to consult a solicitor, however that in itself could make them aggressive towards you (perceive you as a threat) so I wouldn't, just yet.

A weekend to sort things out - are they expecting you to work the new hours from Monday? Given that realistically you might not even be able to contact childcare providers before then let alone negotiate new hours they can do, that does not seem reasonable.

[cathf]

The certainly cannot tell you today that your hours will be changing on Monday - they have to give adequate notice and a consultation period.

[Coffeethrowtrampbitch]

cathf if the employer dismissed the employee for refusing to sign a new contract with revised hours, this would be constructive dismissal.

Op I hope you get good advice from ACAS. Withholding payslips and trying to change your contracted hours without your agreements do not sound good, and I doubt they realise how serious their position could get.

[cathf]

Coffee, this is not what we were told by our HR advisors.
Do you work on HR? Not being goady, I am genuinely interested.
We were told that as long as we went through the whole consultation period correctly and had a strong business need (which we did) there was no case for constructive dismissal.
We had a clause in our contracts which stated that hours could be changed if necessary, but I think thid is pretty standard?

[TheWitTank]

My main issue is it has been sprung on me and I've been told to make a decision over a weekend -clearly completely ridiculous seeing as if I was able to use childcare (which I can't) I couldn't arrange it all over the weekend.
Have spoken to ACAS and they have told me to seek legal advice. I have also emailed to request all of my payslips.
I completely understand a business cannot revolve around my child care. Of course not. It is the immediacy and expectation that I can just change that has upset me. They know about my son ASD and why I cannot use childcare, so asking me is a bit of a useless course of action really.
Also, in our chat before I left, he said "we need someone here all day to man the phones etc" and then in the next breath said "if you stay, we will be changing your job role so you are out visiting clients more". So which is it ?
I actually feel quite sick. So worried .
Thanks so much everyone for your advicex

[GrendelsAunty]

As a delaying tactic, can you agree to the change but say you need a month's notice to put childcare in place? That will at least give you a chance to take legal advice.

[PlumsGalore]

My work, large corporate, changed the terms and conditions of a lot of our homeworkers so that they were office based with the ability to still WFH on an ad hoc basis. They gave three months notice to the changes, I don't think anything less is reasonable.

[Northernlurker]

You need to keep careful notes of everything that's said to you. I agree it sounds like they are trying to drive you out.

[Cabrinha]

I disagree Grendel. OP shouldn't agree to anything to buy time for legal advice. Because by agreeing she could scupper what the legal advise could lead to!
You need legal advice asap, until then, stall stall stall. Say you're ringing round to see if childcare can be arranged, but you can't decide until then.

[Heathen4Hire]

I work for Public Transport, which has 24 hour staffing needs. I asked for late shifts only from my employer, at my then grade. My manager said I had to reduce by a grade to accommodate the request, which meant a loss of salary. So I had very expensive childcare to pay for, plus a drop in pay, on top of all my other stress. My Union asked for the "business needs" surrounding this decision, and it basically came down to their needs trumped mine.

On appeal, my Union managed to get me a side-step position (control room to ticket office) which involved no night shift requirements (one of the sticking points). I had to leave the job I loved but I keep my money.

This was nine years ago, and I know things have changed a lot.

lots of good advice above, and I go along with it. You need a strong advocate to work on your behalf (mine is a noted trade unionist who takes no shit).

[PoppyPicklesPenguin]

Don't what ever you do agree to anything!

What does your contract state regarding your hours?

[Allthewaves]

Does your contract state the days you work and the agreed time?