AIBU to think they just can't do this? Just basically lost my job :(

[TheWitTank]

Please help wise people of MN. Z
Just left work for the day and I'm a bit shell shocked and tearful. Boss came to see me and basically has said they can't accommodate my hours anymore (9am-2.30pm 4 days a week) and that I need to change to what they need (8am-5.30pm 3 days a week) or I haven't got a job. For some background, I changed my hours to my current ones back in June due to childcare issues. Employer accepted this on a trial basis for one month -I haven't heard anything since and it seemed to work, so thought it was all ok. Now, 4 months later, boss has changed his mind. I signed a contract with my new hours. It is impossible for me to do the new hours. No possible solutions. What do I do? I really need my job, but I can't do it. I'm looking frantically through ads as I wait for my DD but there isn't anything suitable. I have until Monday to decide what to do. Please help -what are my rights? I will ring ACAS when I'm home, but I need some encouraging words to stop me bawling.

[RichardBucket]

You poor thing. Please do follow previous advice to keep everything in writing (even just for yourself - like a diary) and seek legal advice.

[cathf]

Needs of the Business trump everything. At the end of the day, although unfortunate, the business is there to serve its customers not fit in with staff's childcare needs.

[PUGaLUGS]

I had an awful time with a similar situation.

Previous employer asked what I thought about starting work earlier. I said I couldn't. Didn't hear anymore. After the summer break (secondary school receptionist) they announced the new opening times of reception. I had to have various meetings with HR, it was awful. I had been there 7 years. They cited "needs of the business". My argument was that Heads of Years didn't start at the time of the new reception time which left me open to disgruntled parents, also I still had a school age DS at home and I liked to make sure he was up before I left, my reasoning wasn't good enough.

Luckily I applied for a new job which had my old start time but going in the opposite direction and away from the traffic and I was successful. I haven't looked back.

I really feel for you OP.

[AnchorDownDeepBreath]

When did you get your new contract; OP? When you requested the trial? After it had finished? Does it mention the hours you current work, or just the total number of hours?

also, they've asked you to consider this over the weekend - have they told you when they'd like this to come into place?

[BowieFan]

Needs of the business. Sorry, but as you entered into the job on a different set of hours and then changed them to flexi-time, you don't have a leg to stand on. Your employer is well within their rights to terminate your employment and find a staff member who can fit what they need.

[Naicehamshop]

This will be of no help in the short term but possibly in the long term. ..

Can you speak to your dcs school and push for some pre and after school care? I work in a very small school and we have started to provide this because of demand from parents. It really is expected from all schools nowadays as it's so difficult for parents to work "normal" hours without it.
I would expect all bigger schools to provide it as a matter of course.

[PaulDacreCuntyMcCuntFace]

Check your home insurance - you may have legal cover on it and it's common for this to cover employment disputes. If you do have the cover then there will be a legal helpline you can ring for advice and they will guide you through what you need to do. You really need a solicitor who specialises in employment law. If you have Union membership then contact your Union.

DO NOT AGREE TO ANY CHANGES - even verbally.

If you haven't had a chance to talk to anyone before going back to work and they start pressuring you, then you tell them that you have a signed contract with your hours in place and that you are seeking legal advice.

[Mouikey]

You need to get proper advice and sadly if you're not in the union already they are unlikely to help as you cant have a pre-existing issue when you join, however they may offer some informal advice if you join.

Whatever happens DONT start doing the new hours as this would be tacit acceptance of the amended contract. They should also put it in writing and there should be a consultation period. I would write to the employer (letter and email) setting out what has been said, that you haven't received it in writing and requesting information on when they are expecting it to be implemented. I would also express in the letter that you require longer than a weekend to consider the change to the contract as the new contract (signed x date) was only recently agreed - you may wish to put something in about childcare (facts not emotion) and the new contract.

Contracts can be changed if employers follow the correct procedure and if an employee does not wish to accept the changes then sadly the outcome can be difficult.

Additionally (just in case) this is not deemed to be a minor amendment to your contract it is major. The trial period of the new hours is a red herring - a new contract would not have been issued if they were unhappy with the hours.

Finally if this is a large company and it is a local manager who has said this (and not HR) and only verbally (not in writing) then there maybe some other issues that you could raise (harassment:bullying etc) sadly some managers think they can unilaterally make such decisions, but they cannot and must follow correct procedures.

Get some legal advice but don't start working the new hours no matter what pressure is put on you (until you are happy to sign a new contract)

[aliceinwanderland]

You might also want to post in legal matters. Some excellent mumsnet lawyers over there who specialise in this stuff.

[witsender]

If your new contract has your new hours this is no longer a request for flexible working being declined. That ship has passed. These ARE your hours.

[aliceinwanderland]

OP - I just realised that your son has ASD. I think you might also get protection under the Equality Act as you have an association with a person who has disability.

[topcat2014]

Is the business on the skids? I can think of no reason for not giving payslips out - unless, for whatever reason, they haven't run and reported a proper payroll each month as they are legally obliged to.

Are they trying to fund the business by not paying over the PAYE or something.

Agree with PP that hours can be changed provided appropriate notice is given. It's shitty, of course, but the business has to be allowed to change so that it can continue. Think of the reverse, if business dropped, would every employer have to keep all staff on full time until the cash runs out.

Good luck OP.

[aliceinwanderland]

OP - in my view you DO have a potential claim for sex discrimination. As I understand it you have a contract (your new one) with reduced hours to take account of your childcare requirements. Childcare is mainly carried out by women . So a change which you do not want which does not take account of this is indirect sex discrimination. It is not a well known area of law but I have taken legal advice on this in the past (and I am a lawyer myself).

All this stuff about employers being able to do what they want is baloney. There are other options available to the company such as a job share.

You definitely need a good lawyer (in the flesh!) To help you. It's a tricky area.

[Allthewaves]

Does your contract state the days you work and the agreed time?

[PoppyPicklesPenguin]

Don't what ever you do agree to anything!

What does your contract state regarding your hours?

[Heathen4Hire]

I work for Public Transport, which has 24 hour staffing needs. I asked for late shifts only from my employer, at my then grade. My manager said I had to reduce by a grade to accommodate the request, which meant a loss of salary. So I had very expensive childcare to pay for, plus a drop in pay, on top of all my other stress. My Union asked for the "business needs" surrounding this decision, and it basically came down to their needs trumped mine.

On appeal, my Union managed to get me a side-step position (control room to ticket office) which involved no night shift requirements (one of the sticking points). I had to leave the job I loved but I keep my money.

This was nine years ago, and I know things have changed a lot.

lots of good advice above, and I go along with it. You need a strong advocate to work on your behalf (mine is a noted trade unionist who takes no shit).

[Cabrinha]

I disagree Grendel. OP shouldn't agree to anything to buy time for legal advice. Because by agreeing she could scupper what the legal advise could lead to!
You need legal advice asap, until then, stall stall stall. Say you're ringing round to see if childcare can be arranged, but you can't decide until then.

[Northernlurker]

You need to keep careful notes of everything that's said to you. I agree it sounds like they are trying to drive you out.

[PlumsGalore]

My work, large corporate, changed the terms and conditions of a lot of our homeworkers so that they were office based with the ability to still WFH on an ad hoc basis. They gave three months notice to the changes, I don't think anything less is reasonable.

[GrendelsAunty]

As a delaying tactic, can you agree to the change but say you need a month's notice to put childcare in place? That will at least give you a chance to take legal advice.

[TheWitTank]

My main issue is it has been sprung on me and I've been told to make a decision over a weekend -clearly completely ridiculous seeing as if I was able to use childcare (which I can't) I couldn't arrange it all over the weekend.
Have spoken to ACAS and they have told me to seek legal advice. I have also emailed to request all of my payslips.
I completely understand a business cannot revolve around my child care. Of course not. It is the immediacy and expectation that I can just change that has upset me. They know about my son ASD and why I cannot use childcare, so asking me is a bit of a useless course of action really.
Also, in our chat before I left, he said "we need someone here all day to man the phones etc" and then in the next breath said "if you stay, we will be changing your job role so you are out visiting clients more". So which is it ?
I actually feel quite sick. So worried .
Thanks so much everyone for your advicex

[cathf]

Coffee, this is not what we were told by our HR advisors.
Do you work on HR? Not being goady, I am genuinely interested.
We were told that as long as we went through the whole consultation period correctly and had a strong business need (which we did) there was no case for constructive dismissal.
We had a clause in our contracts which stated that hours could be changed if necessary, but I think thid is pretty standard?

[Coffeethrowtrampbitch]

cathf if the employer dismissed the employee for refusing to sign a new contract with revised hours, this would be constructive dismissal.

Op I hope you get good advice from ACAS. Withholding payslips and trying to change your contracted hours without your agreements do not sound good, and I doubt they realise how serious their position could get.

[cathf]

The certainly cannot tell you today that your hours will be changing on Monday - they have to give adequate notice and a consultation period.

[secrethideaway]

Don't bother with Acas they are a waste of space except for directing you to general guidance you can find yourself using google. Look for a reputable law firm specialising in employment law and make an appointment to see the asap.

Limit discussion with your employer until you have done that and don't agree to anything or make any statements until you have advice. It's fine to let your employer know you need and intend to consult a solicitor, however that in itself could make them aggressive towards you (perceive you as a threat) so I wouldn't, just yet.

A weekend to sort things out - are they expecting you to work the new hours from Monday? Given that realistically you might not even be able to contact childcare providers before then let alone negotiate new hours they can do, that does not seem reasonable.