To go back to Drs and demand antibiotics

[NaturalRBF]

My DD, DH & myself have been ill for 11 days now with a headachy, snotty, coughing and achey style bug. I took DD to Drs Tuesday last week as she suffers with fits when she gets a temperature. GP told me it's viral and we just had to ride it out with usual paracetamol, duvet days etc

But 11 days on I'm actually feeling worse & DD who is 15 months still seems pretty rough too, along with DH.

Would it be unreasonable to think this is in fact bacterial and we need some antibiotics?

Just for back ground last time DD & I had antibiotics was after birth as I had sepsis in labour and before that I had some 3 years ago for another ongoing cold/fluey style thing.

I understand why antibiotics are not given out willy-nilly but I'm really not sure that this is a viral thing after such a long time feeling so poorly!

[NaturalRBF]

OhTheRoses we very very rarely go to the GP. I have EDS3 & barely go for that as I have found exercise & a healthy lifestyle is far more beneficial than painkillers & gabapentin etc. I went once with tonsillitis & that was when it was horrific (about 4 years ago) & was given antibiotics because the GP knows I don't come in unless it's super nasty.

[PacificDogwod]

Any test performed in the US or France (or Germany where I know the health care system best) generated an item of service fee for the doctor - so the more testing they do, the more they earn. The more they prescribe, the more they earn.
Over-treating is at least as big a problem as under-treating, worldwide.
IME and IMO, healthcare is not exponentially better in other countries. Or at least, it's not bourn out by large scale statistics/life expectancy etc.

[PacificDogwod]

I'll just leave this here - the Commonwealth Fund is an American think tank.

[OhTheRoses]

Pacific it seems much more helpful in France. Our GP is very helpful but difficult to get to see. DD was ordered bloods today. Apt 11th. Have made GP apt for 18th in case results indicate need for referral. If they are normal I'll cancel but dnt want q an abnormal result and then having to wait 2/3 weeks for an apt.

[PacificDogwod]

Oh, there is a national crisis in Primary Care and I am in no way defending the limitation an under resourced system is imposing on patients.
Just meant to say, seemingly getting antibiotics more easily or tests more commonly does not for a better system make.

[OhTheRoses]

I get that but to be fair I've been gobsmacked at how easily we've got abs in the last two days. Two different units, different reasons, but for mother and daughter. DD had an apt anyway this am for somethin else but in the circs I'd have queued at the door from 8.20 to get her seen. Have heard people arguing over that when at the surgery. Madness!

[jacks11]

If you are concerned OP then go back to your GP to be reassessed.

Viruses can be extremely nasty and can make people very unwell- just as unwell as a serious bacterial infection. They can last a long time and take a while to recover, for instance it is not unusual for post-viral cough to last 4-5 weeks. Telling someone they most likely have a viral infection is certainly not fobbing them off.

I understand you are concerned and feel you weren't treated with antibiotics previously when you should have been, but that doesn't mean that if your GP decides you/your DD have a viral infection that you are being "fobbed off".

The various tests that can be done are under consideration and they may be a useful addition but clinical assessment and judgement are often just as important. We treat patients, not blood results- e.g. even in cases where bacterial infections are the cause antibiotics may not be necessary (even if you feel a bit rubbish). In some cases antibiotics shorten duration of illness by 24-48 hours, in healthy people the risks of bacterial resistance completely outweigh the minimal benefit.

I think we all have experience of patients with viral infections who are back and forth to different Drs seeking antibiotics until someone finally gives in- of course this can take a few visits and by the time they get the antibiotics the natural course of their infection means they would be getting better anyway- but starting the antibiotics coincides with the patient feeling better and the patient then becomes convinced it was the antibiotics that helped them get better. And of course that means that the Dr had to be wrong in not to giving them the antibiotics in the first place. In reality, they got better by themselves.

Healthcare in France has many positives over NHS, as some PP have pointed out, but there are a few negatives too (I have experience of both). Their record of antibiotic prescribing is not as good as many seem to think. As I said above, simply having a bacterial infection does not equate to needing antibiotics in all cases.

[OhTheRoses]

Anyway off to bed and to neck another ab. Bought a thrush pill today - it will happen - but prepared - bleurgh. Nice that my arm has stopped thobbing and is no longer red and swollen. Scary to think what might have happened 100 years ago.

[PisforPeter]

Viruses can last up to 3 weeks.

[NaturalRBF]

Thanks jacks I'll be trying to get another appointment. I do understand that it could well be viral however given my DDs history it makes me uneasy when I feel I am not being listened to. We only ever see one GP so we don't go round the surgery seeing different ones. There's a few at our surgery and I was once told by another GP to "just stop breastfeeding" when I explained to him that I was having dizzy spells & he wanted to prescribe me a drug that wasn't safe to breastfeed whilst taking. Hence why we see this particular GP. Also because he knows I don't come in looking for a script. I come in to seek a professionals knowledge. Prior to my EDS3 being diagnosed he was fantastic at looking at holistic options to treating my pain. So I'm really not a pill popper. I really am only concerned for my DDs longer term health.

[Piscivorus]

Our GP tells people that even coughing up green gunk does not warrant antibiotics in people who are normally fit and well as most bacterial infections resolve themselves in time.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

I don't think too many people take the risk of antibiotic resistance seriously.

25yrs ago I stayed with a Uni friend int he hols, and her dad was a dentist. I had an awful cough - brought on no doubt by the onset of autumnal weather and smoking too many cigarettes. Her (lovely) dad says to me 'I can give you some antibotics to get rid of any bugs on your chest' and of course I took them. That;s how easy it was. He just produced these tablets for me.

But antibiotic resistance could be the biggest, worst challenge we face now. Life without effective antibiotics is unthinkable. But it may (will?) happen.

[Sallystyle]

I got antibiotics yesterday after my ferret bit my thumb and didn't let go.

To prevent infection as they were deep puncture wounds. DH said he would not have taken them as a precautionary measure and would rather have waited until and if an infection occurred.

I wondered if he had a good point.

OP if you are worried go back and see your GP.

[PenguinPoo4]

I'm going to disagree with the others. 8 months ago I had very bad bronchitis, so poorly I could barely leave bed for 10 days. I went back to Dr after 10 days and he said that although I did have viral bronchitis I could well have other, bacterial infections as well which could be slowing down my recovery. Within 24 hours of antibiotics I could feel a small improvement and I got better rapidly. Still took me a few weeks before I felt 100% though.
No harm in getting a 2nd opinion, it's not as though you haven't given it any time at all before going back to Dr. Not fair to compare you to someone who pesters the Dr for antibiotics over every minor ailment.

[Sallystyle]

I am also on antibiotics for acne. Only because my derm said I needed to try more before he would give me anything else.

I am going to come off them. I hate being on them and I worry about the effects of being on them long term. They aren't working and when I told the dr at A&E what type I was on he was shocked and said they don't even work for acne :hmm

[Sallystyle]

I mean the type of antibiotics I'm on, not antibiotics in general.

[5OBalesofHay]

Y ANBU provided you are better qualified than your doctor

[OhTheRoses]

The thing is though, the tablets given for personal infection won't stop drug resistant bugs. The bugs are resistant to the abs. It isn't the individual's resistance that has been weakened. We can't turn back the clock we need a new gen of abs and they must be used with caution.

[giraffesCantReachTheirToes]

I was convincedI had a bad bacterial infection, went on for weeks. So was my GP. 7 days of doxycycline, then 7 more days...eventually rushed into resus with bad asthma attack. While in hosp they tested for bacterial infection in my phlegm - none. And tested for virus via a gargle...I had parainfluenza. Was hell!

I hope you fel better soon op it sounds rotten x :)

sirzy have PMed you re an asthma issue

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

My ds(14) was prescribed antibiotics for acne too. It was severe acne - all over his face, back, chest and shoulders. It didn't work, or even make any difference. We're waiting for a referral appt now.

It's the miracle drug of our age that we've abused.

[PacificDogwod]

Antibiotic resistance does happen to individuals, although that is not the really worrying issue.

I am 50, so might be alright when I need a hip replacement/heart surgery.
I am not so certain for my DCs - that is what we have to consider and weigh against the perceived need for antibiotics for respiratory infections.

As an aside, most antibiotics (penicillin and the likes) don't outright kill bacteria; they stop them multiplying allowing our immune systems to mop them up.
So, for somebody in good health generally who is not objectively unwell (as measured by temperature/pulse/BP) there is a strong case to ride it out, even if it is a bacterial infection.

Bizarrely, some bacteria have become less aggressive: Streptococcus one of the common tonsillitis bugs caused a lot of problems with longer term complications such as Rheumatic Fever and kidney failure (this is partially what has led to the expectation of antibiotics for cough/sore throats as the threat of RF was very real a couple of generations ago, and certainly was a killer before the war) are now much 'tamer'.

And feeling terrible is not an indication for antibiotics. The reason we feel unwell when we are ill is because our bodies want us to stop doing what we're doing, rest up and allow our body to do what it can to get better in the fullness of time.

Getting checked over again when symptoms change/get worse is always a good idea though.

[NaturalRBF]

Pacific I have complete understanding of what you're saying. Hence why we're not pestering various GPs for antibiotics at every sniff or sneeze. We're usually healthy people who keep a hygienic home & are very very welcome to homeopathic & holistic therapies.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Scarlet fever, Pacific. My DM (now aged 71) was hospitalised isolation with it at the age of 8yrs. Now it is a less serious illness, still notifiable (I know because my ds had it, strawberry tongue and all) and they give ABs for the secondary symptoms.

[PacificDogwod]

Natural, I am not talking about you specifically.
Go back and get seen again, you and your DD

I am just pontificating, but am now going to bed you'll all be relieved to hear

[NowThatsClosureJen]

Viruses are theee says coming, three days here, three days going.

YABSoU