To be shocked at the divorce laws for same sex marriage re: adultery?

[Bogeyface]

Probably am, probably everyone else knew this except me but this is taken from the gov.uk website

"Adultery

Your husband or wife had sex with someone else of the opposite sex, and you can no longer bear to live with them.

It doesn’t count as adultery if they had sex with someone of the same sex. This includes if you’re in a same-sex marriage.

You can’t give adultery as a reason if you lived with your husband or wife for 6 months after you found out about it."

So, if you are a lesbian and your wife has sex with another lesbian then you cannot divorce her on grounds of adultery! It only counts if it is PIV sex!

I am sure, as I said, that this is just me late to the party but surely when the marriage laws where changed to allow same sex marriage then the divorce laws should have been updated at the same time? Interestingly, adultery is not grounds for ending a civil partnership, so perhaps the best thing would be to end it being grounds for divorce too in order to have parity across the board?

[GarlicMist]

Good grief, Life, I've never heard of a divorce court doing that Were they filthy rich or something? (I had the impression that divorce petitions were only queried when the stakes were very high.)

[RebootYourEngine]

It is quite shocking however I was told by my lawyer that not many people cite adultery because it is very hard to prove. Unreasonable behaviour seems to be the preferred reason.

[ReallyTired]

The law needs updating and it's crazy that it doesn't include homosexual sex. I don't think that being bisexual is grounds for a divorce provide the person does not seek sex outside a marriage.

[NewRoadToHappinessxx]

I don't know either but it's really hard to prove anyway - my ex was essentially living with someone else that he'd been seeing when I filed for divorce and the solicitor told me unreasonable behaviour was easier to prove even with emails from him telling me how much better she was in bed!

[Trifleorbust]

How would you define adultery in these cases?

[ProudAS]

Any form of sex with another person should constitute adultery irrespective of gender and whether it is anal/oral etc

[Copperas]

I wonder if adultery originally meant the possibility of getting pregnant - fear of a cuckoo in the nest adulterating the family line?

[NNChangeAgain]

Does anyone cite adultery on their divorce petition?

DHs ex admitted an affair and was disciplined at work for it, but even then, his solicitor adviced that he couldn't divorce her on the grounds of adultery because there was no proof.
He cited UB - the basis of which was that she'd admitted an affair.

At the time he said it pissed him off that he couldn't publicly record her cheating but after the fact, it really doesn't make any difference.

[WhooooAmI24601]

proud is absolutely right, it shouldn't matter about the details, adultery is adultery.

I've never understood why you need to provide a reason for your divorce. It's as though you're offering up some justification as to why someone isn't going to be your spouse any more; surely we're not that silly (mankind, I mean) that we're going to be scampering off thinking "I fancy a divorce today" at the drop of a hat? The couples I know who have divorced have done so after extensive heartbreak and trials. It's not something we take lightly, so why the need to justify it? It should be enough that a divorce is needed.

[CrohnicallyAspie]

It sounds like 'adultery' has a very specific and narrow legal definition, maybe copperas has it right and it's because of the risk of an illegitimate child, and it's almost impossible for a heterosexual couple to prove anyway. And it seems to be one of those words that has kind of evolved in common usage, to encompass 'cheating' or 'sexual contact' but has retained its narrow legal definition.

Rather than trying to get the legal definition of 'adultery' changed, shouldn't we try to get the divorce law changed, so instead of 'adultery' as a reason for divorce 'inappropriate sexual conduct' or 'sexual relationship with another person' or similar?

[Blueskyrain]

Yes, it'd a strange anomaly - I think most of the difficulty comes from defining sex when it isn't PIV.

You could say sexual activity, but then that would have to be defined, and there'd be many gray areas. The practical upshot is that if your spouse has a non PIV affair, then you'd just claim under unreasonable behaviour citing the non PIV affair.

[LunaLoveg00d]

I'm sure that if your same sex partner was shagging around with people of the same sex and you were unable to use the adultery reason because of a legal quirk, that "unreasonable behaviour" would more than cover it. Or whatever the legal term is for "unresolvable differences".

[SoupDragon]

Does anyone cite adultery on their divorce petition?

Yes. I did.

[sashh]

It is discriminatory surely? If a same sex couple can marry as an opposite sex couple can, then they should be able to divorce on the same grounds.

Er ... well it's basically what do you count as 'sex'.

In British law it is has traditionally been PIV, it's only recent changes tot he law that have made anal rape, legal rape, it used to be 'indecent assault' (incidentally with a max sentence of 10 years if victim is male or 2 if victim is female).

Is a blow job sex? Is kissing a penis sex? Is using a vibrator cheating? What if someone else is holding the vibrator?

[sashh]

Oh and I forgot to add, what if you are in a loving lesbian relationship, you are married and you want a child.

You can have the expensive treatment at an infertility clinic, but many couples have asked a male friend to DTD.

Is that cheating? Legally it is adultery, but if you both want a child, agree the friend would be a great dad, he is fine abut it etc etc.

This is why the 6 month rule is in place, so that it protects the woman who has had a sexual relationship with her wife's knowledge and blessing purely to have a child, rather than 20 years later the other wife citing adultery on the divorce.

[Youarenotprepared]

As others have said it's virtually pointless anyway due to the proof clause and what they constitute as proof.

I would like to see the process be very simple. Two grounds; unreasonable behaviour or time apart.

UB can include any form of affair, any twattish behaviour, any abusive behaviour, any behaviour the person filing cannot live with.

Time apart should be just the two years and after that either party can file for divorce and be granted it. Bitter exes should not be able to drag a divorce out for 5 years.

I would also like to see it be far easier and quicker to divorce if DV is involved.

[Lifeisontheup2]

Garlic definitely not filthy rich. No kids and finances had all been sorted amicably. They thought it was possibly because same sex marriages in this country haven't been around long and therefore same sex divorces.
It caused them a lot of distress and was so unnecessary.

[brasty]

It is because MPs could not agree what legally counts as sex, between two women. They agreed that anal sex between two men would count as sex between two men, but when it came to two women, they were stumped. So they simply left adultery out altogether.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I knew this. And I knew they didn't plan to update it.

It is really homophobic, IMO.

The 'ooh, we don't know what women do, it's probably not real sex, let's not count it' makes me quite angry.

It also makes me feel quite odd.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

You can have the expensive treatment at an infertility clinic, but many couples have asked a male friend to DTD.

Is that so common? I wonder, because I have heard people claim that couples do this, and I've occasionally heard (unsubstantiated) claims that it's marginally more effective than the old-fashioned DIY method, but I have never actually met anyone who has admitted to it. Donating sperm, sure. Actual sex, no.

Besides which, the cost of sperm from a reputable sperm bank is not that high (especially when you take into account the costs of everything else you pay for at a fertility clinic).

[FluffyFooFoo]

The law is an ass!

[brasty]

I knew women who asked a man they knew to donate sperm, but only in the years that clinics would not sell sperm to lesbians or single women. And even then, they used a turkey baster. I don't know any lesbian who had sex with a man to get pregnant. So irrelevant really.

[darreldixonishot]

They couldn't come up with a definition for 'consummate' either so that can't be used as a reason to have a marriage annulled in same sex marriages!

[GnomeDePlume]

I think Copperas has it. Marriage, legally, is about property. The risk of adultery in the legal sense is of assets going outside of the marriage either to a cuckoo in the nest or to an illegitimate child outside of the marriage.

Once the risk of pregnancy is taken out of the equation I think the unreasonable behaviour route is 'better'. You dont have to prove that either party is actually having sex (which is difficult).