Would you be annoyed with school pastoral person over this?

[PikachuSayBoo]

Dd is in year 11 and has been unwell for a couple of months. She's been diagnosed with severe anaemia and very low Vit d levels.

I rang school up yesterday and told the pastoral lead for her year. I wanted to give her a heads up that dd is very tired, she's worrying that it's going to affect her at school, she has brain fog, is depressed and has chest pains and shortness of breath.

So this afternoon dd is in a lot of pain and starts crying in class. Lesson finishes and dd is sat in the school cloisters crying. She has a late lesson on a Tuesday so should stay after school has technically finished. This is a compulsary lesson not an optional one. One of dds teachers told her she should go home. Pastoral person comes along sees dd and according to dd shouts at her, tells her that crying isn't going to help and that she needs to get to her next lesson. Dd told her she was crying because she was in so much pain and says she was just shouted at.

Dh wants to ring up and complain. Dd had 100% attendance last year so isn't the sort of kid to try and skive off a lesson. Dd doesn't want us to ring up school as she says the HOY and pastoral person hate her enough already.

[NoMudNoLotus]

I have to actually inject vitamin d into patients they are so deficient - but the dosages are worked out from individual blood tests .

Dr Google is not a reliable or safe way of managing your child's health.

[PikachuSayBoo]

Copied from the Vit d councils website;

The Vitamin D council suggests taking 5,000 IU per day for three months, then obtain a 25-hydroxyvitamin D test. Adjust your dosage so that blood levels are between 50–80 ng/mL (or 125–200 nmol/L) year-round

[BertrandRussell]

Why the fuck are you doubling her dose???????

[msgrinch]

You are overdosing your child yet moaning about the school. Fucking hell Ive heard it all now

[Longlost10]

The vitamin D council, now that wouldn't be the company selling vitamin D and vitamin D tests, would it? The company that claim a quarter of all deaths are related to vitamin D deficiency, that suddenly was unable to answer calls from reporters when a 10 year old child died after a "megadose" 6 months ago, that vitamin D council, you are taking advise from??? I think they fact that they have a little shopping trolley in the corner of their screen might be the first clue that they are not entirely objective......

[PikachuSayBoo]

Msgrinch. Whatever ive done has been with best intention. I'm not the one who has been shouting at an upset child, or is that ok??



The Safety of High Dose Vitamin D

The safety of high dose Vitamin D is still debated by some health authorities. However the literature demonstrates that such concerns are unfounded.

In the US the official position is that the upper limit of intake should be 2000IU. (144) In the UK the position is more conservative and stands at 1000IU per day. (145,146) The recommendations came about by establishing the highest dose that appeared to have no adverse effects and dividing by four to ensure an adequate safety margin. (147)

Studies have clearly shown that doses of 10000IU/day are safe (19) and that literature report of toxicity only occur at doses of the order of 40,000IU per day.(158)

In a study in elderly nursing home patients 5000IU was added to bread and given the the patients every day. After 12 months, during which no adverse events were noted plasma levels increased from a mean of 11.4ng/ml to 50ng/ml and was over 29,6ng/ml in 92% of the patients. (153)

[Longlost10]

If she took an overdose yesterday, and the incident with the pain and crying was yesterday, it may be worth her seeing the GP and explaining what happened.

[PikachuSayBoo]

She was crying with the same pain last week and last month and two months ago.

[Longlost10]

Do you know what an LD50 is, OP? it means half of all deaths known to be from vitamin D overdose happen at doses less than you are quoting, and half at greater. But you are talking about a child, so likely to be in the group killed by smaller doses, how much smaller? no one really knows. That is accute poisoning, I know very little about chronic vit D poisoning, other than victorian explorers had a habit of doing it to themselves, and apparently, their skin generally fell off before they died.

Why are you even considering overdosing her at all? Why are you taking medical advise and information from random nutters on the web,? If this was in my school, we would be contacting social services. This would certainly fall into the child protection officer's remit.

[PikachuSayBoo]

longlost. The Vit d council wasn't the only website I looked at. I looked at several.

[PikachuSayBoo]

Well I will ring SS and report myself tomorrow.

[PikachuSayBoo]

And said "child" is taller than a lot of adults. Year 11, not 11yo!

Some of the stuff I read included journal articles clinical trials inc this one onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1359/jbmr.07s221/asset/5650221314_ftp.pdf;jsessionid=DA0EC0BF94892249AAC19576C1696D56.f01t03?v=1&t=itc2lnqs&s=77d7ab6060f18a11492f0cc7c54e3ba7e5a1dd43. Which states that 10,000 iu a day is ok. But I appreciate your concern.

[msgrinch]

Its a hell of alot better than giving your kid an overdose!

[PikachuSayBoo]

Maybe you'd like to read that journal article.

[PikachuSayBoo]

Thanks Dixie. Will ask the gP about that when I take dd back.

[StarryIllusion]

You don't know how much those people weighed, their height, levels or even their general constitution though OP. My GP regularly marvels at my magnesium levels. They are often so low that normal people would be in hospital but for me they are baseline normal. Same with sedatives, I can hold enough sedative to floor a man twice my size and still walk a straight line. It's just my constitution. No need to get defensive, we're not judging your parenting, you're just doing your best for your DD and clearly very worried about her but ODing on prescription vitamins can and has killed people. Would you rather no one had told you about the toxic effects of overdosing on this stuff?

[PikachuSayBoo]

No, am quite happy for people to,point it out and as I said over half an hour ago I will tell her to go back to what the gP said. But people still want to happily point out that where they work theyd be reporting me to SS, etc. I would say that's judging my parenting.

I would have thought that journal article would state that 10,000 iu a day is safe if it is safe for everyone. There's no caveat that you must weigh over x pounds.

[PikachuSayBoo]

Even this nhs website says that 12-18yos with symptoms of Vit d deficiency should take 10,000 iu a day for three months.

www.rnoh.nhs.uk/clinical-services/paediatric-adolescents/vitamin-d-children

[StarryIllusion]

They're judging a snapshot, nothing more. I highly doubt you go round feeding them entire bottles of pills normally. Don't take it to heart. wonders if that would make DS go to bloody sleep

No, that is just a general number, a guideline like when paracetamol packaging says that you can have x doses per day but actually that is only for over 12s of a healthy weight. Under 12 year olds is much less and not as often and a very underweight adult would not be able to safely take a normal dosage either. You will find if you go to A&E and they prescribe your child painkillers and you go back and say they aren't working they will weigh the child to determine the exact maximum safe dosage. Her GP will have set the dosage based on her and any excess won't be absorbed anyway so it won't actually help and she will get ill from trying to purge it, as I found out when trying to raise my magnesium levels. God that was a level of Hell only previously associated with Norovirus. I've never been so sick in my life.

[PikachuSayBoo]

Yes and if 10,000 iu is a guideline and dd is having 3000 then I doubt im overdosing her. The nhs website says a 6 month old baby can have 3000 units a day and dd (who is adult size) weighs more than a 6 month old baby.

But I promise dd will go back to what the gP (who never weighed her) prescribed until I get her back in at the doctors. And then I will ask if she should actually be on 10,000 never mind 3000 a day.

[PikachuSayBoo]

I've face booked my paediatric consultant friend now to see what he thinks.

[dodobookends]

The NHS website I looked at recently said that you shouldn't take more than 100mcg a day as it will be harmful.

100mcg = 4,000iu

[PikachuSayBoo]

That ties in with a 2011 study which showed that 4000 iu a day was the most effective dose. Much more effective than lower doses.

[passthewineplz]

The recommended daily dose, and dosage for children who are deficient in vitamin d are here.

www.rcpch.ac.uk/system/files/protected/page/vitdguidancedraftspreads%20FINAL%20for%20website.pdf

OP please have your DD vitamin D levels rechecked so the GP can adjust the dosage appropriately.