To reserve the right to be messy?

[littleacceb]

My mother left her partner overseas and has returned home penniless, having not had a job in 25 years and burned through the moderate divorce settlement from when she and my father went their separate ways.

She has been living with us for two months now, and only in the past fortnight confirmed that this isn't just a visit but a permanent relocation. She has fully occupied our spare room and spends her time walking the dog, washing up, doing laundry, visiting friends around the country and watching tv.

The first three items are helpful, but not enough to make up for the extra mouth to feed and the loss of a spare room. She refuses to provide any childcare - I'm self-employed and work mostly from home, so that'd be a great help - but that is absolutely her prerogative. It's clear that she will need to get a job, if not to contribute to the household then to cover things like clothes, hair, nails and lunches out that are being picked up by sympathetic friends and my single younger sister, not to mention the repairs needed to her twelve-year-old performance car.

My husband doesn't like her (or anyone else really) going in our room, but this is something she just cannot seem to compute. She says "oh get over it". He found her in our bathroom today; her response was that she didn't know he was home, still failing to understand that it's an "at all" situation. He was pissy with her about it, so she launched a tirade at me about how he's an arrogant snob.

She hates that our house is messy, but I just don't care enough to dedicate time to clearing up beyond the basic. I'd rather do most other things - play with the kids, work, read. Apparently we think we're better than other people and that's why we don't tidy up. She's always thought this of people who work - that they think they're better because they're busy. She tries to block people from coming into the house because apparently I should be ashamed of how messy it is. But I'm not ashamed. It's not like it's gross or smelly - it's untidy.

Anyway, apparently there's no compromise to be had. She won't get a job or apply for benefits until she's decided whether she's going to live at her friend's house (in her 25-year-old daughter's bedroom, with all her teen decor still present) or here.

If she's here, she won't stop going in our room, and apparently that's only because she wants to keep the place tidy.

I guess she's just freaking out. It must be terrifying starting afresh with nothing, and I honestly don't feel that she'd feel welcome anywhere. She had a rough childhood and a horrendous marriage, and none of us children have turned out how she wanted. But you can't travel on that feeling, or some suppressed version of it, forever.

[SquinkiesRule]

God what an awful mother you have, so sorry OP. Pack her stuff into boxes and stick it in the garage or shed.
Text her while she's away that she needs to move somewhere else.

[NatalieRushman]

She's taking the piss. If you don't kick her out, she's going to walk all over you for the rest of your life. Give her a week to sort out accommodation, and don't let her back in at the deadline.

You say you grew up thinking dv was normal, because that's how it always was in your home. Your dc could grow up thinking that it's normal to let people dictate to them in their own home, and walk all over them.

[AlpacaPicnic]

Well you can buy a big fuck-off lock for your door, and other doors that she's no business entering. Of you can buy some cheapo suitcases and pack her shit up and have it ready for her to collect on her way to somewhere else.
But either way, someone who is 'homeless' and needs a massive favour like a roof over their head should be respecting boundaries and helping out, not picking fights and criticising the way you live. Not because she's family but because it's the decent thing to do.

[Sillybillybonker]

Take no notice of her tears and tantrums. She is using them to make you feel guilty; as a way of controlling you.

[StackladysMorphicResonator]

1. Where did she get enough money for a trip abroad but somehow not have enough to contribute to rent/food/bills?
   

1. If you don't kick her out this WILL destroy your marriage.
   

You have to be the adult here and get her out once and for all.

[maggiethemagpie]

My mother comes to my house and invades my personal space on the pretence of cleaning/tidying, I have told her not to many times but she doesn't listen.

The only thing that works is literally getting a piece of paper and writing 'Please do not enter' and taping it over the door /wall (ie the bit where the door joins the wall so it covers the crack) with lots of brown tape.

Which is a bugger and not good for paintwork, but it's easier than telling my mum to get lost somehow.

[sentia]

It's not about being messy is it? It's about boundaries (her not respecting yours) and self-sufficiency (an essential part of being an adult). You're quite right to expect her to understand there is a need for both.

I'm not sure why she's trying to guilt you into allowing her to sponge off you forever and being so childish, surely she realises she can't stay forever? I get that she's probably terrified and ashamed to be so dependent on others, but how is lashing out at anyone going to help?

What do you want?

[puglife15]

Sorry meant to say, yanbu to be messy but living in mess can be stressful - I know that I'm struggling to keep on to of things at home due to a lack of time and I do sometimes find the clutter gets to me. Maybe that's why she keeps bringing it up though.

But whether she finds it stressful or not, she sounds quite rude and disrespectful. I can see why you want to help your mum out, but it's not fair on the rest of your family having to put up with her.

To leave on holiday purposefully without saying goodbye is petty and mean especially where there are children involved.

Your don't need that shit.

Sick to your guns.

[puglife15]

How do you have a spare room with at least 5 DCs?! (Misses point)

[TheInimitableMrsFanshawe]

Look, this situation is of her making - it sounds like she's had a pretty shit time in the past but that must be at least 10 years ago. You've done your bit to help her out, she can't respect your wishes even though you've explained that you find her attitude unhelpful and hurtful. Don't make this your fault or your responsibility.

[Veterinari]

She swanned off to Menorca? Is this real? Where are all the party/holiday invitations coming from?

OP you should pack her bags and have them waiting for her when she gets back.

[littleacceb]

She got back from her friend's house this afternoon. I said "this isn't working. You're going to need to stop living here". She said "Thanks, now I'm screwed." She asked if she could leave some stuff here; I said yes. She asked if she could borrow a suitcase; I said yes.

Then she left for her trip to Menorca without saying goodbye (DS5 in floods of tears when he discovered she'd gone) and left most of her stuff unpacked in the spare room.

[MrsJayy]

Your mum sounds a complete drama Llama and whats this swanning about like the queen of sheba lunches parties mooching of peopls blah blah . You dont need to go into a huge conversation ask her when she plans to move out , your husband might start blaming you you are going to feel torn and guilty you are going to have to take a deep breath and move her out

[FeckTheMagicDragon]

Oh and tell her it's not a matter for negotiation. Your house, your rules.

[FeckTheMagicDragon]

Ask her who's home does she think this is. Because at the moment she is treating you both like its hers, and you are messy teenagers who need to be brought into line and have no right to privacy. Don't be swayed by tears and emotional blackmail.

[Themoleisdead]

Your untidiness in your own home is actually nothing to do with her (or anyone else). She sounds appalling self centred and your DH has done well to put up with her. I think you need to give her notice or you may find she causes huge problems in your own marriage.

[DeathStare]

We just crossed posts, and so I just wanted to add....

I think you are negotiating and explaining things to her too much.

If she wants to live with you she needs to know what the rules are. She doesn't need to be part of a discussion about why they are that way or how they could be better. She simply needs to know what they are and that they are not open for discussion and either she respects that or she leaves. Her choice. But you need to stop allowing her to be in a position where they are open for discussion.

[specialsubject]

I am surprised you havent changed the locks!

She wont get benefits until she has been back in the uk for a while. So she needs to get a job and get out. Her fault for pissing away money, sorry.

She can get work enough to pay for a flatshare and start from there.

[DeathStare]

I agree with everyone else, you need to put a stop to this behaviour - if not for your own sake (which I think is more than reason enough) then for your DH's.

If the situation was reversed and this was your MIL everyone would be saying you don't have an IL problem you have a DH problem for allowing to continue. And I'm afraid (awful as it sounds) your DH currently has a DW problem for allowing his MIL to treat him like this.

I know it's tough but this is your home and your DH's - not your DM's. You need to draw out some very clear boundaries. If she wants you to do her the favour of allowing her to stay then the concession is she has to respect your boundaries. If that's more than she can manage she needs to find someone else to live.

Oh.... and I don't think it would be at all unreasonable to expect an unemployed adult, who is living rent and bill free in someone else's home, to muck in with childcare.

[littleacceb]

I was brave. She was just heading out to a party, and before she left, I said "we can't just have rows and forget about them when the problems still remain". She said, in a really arsey way, "well, I definitely won't be going in your room again".

I said thank you, and that I appreciated that her points about our untidiness were valid to her - she said "certainly not just to me" - but that we were happy how we lived. She said it was ridiculous - what else could she do all day. I'll admit that I was gobsmacked - um... get a job? - but couldn't get the words out.

She said she would get the place tidy if we would just change our habits to maintain it - referring to an earlier complaint about DH not putting his shoes away - and didn't we want to live a better way? I said not especially.

She began to cry. I said I just wanted to have a logical conversation. She yelled "this is logical!" then slammed the door and went to her party.

[mrsfuzzy]

you and your dh need to tell her straight you've helped her out but there is a date on the calender and you need to be gone by it. she's playing om a guilt thing, don't let her do it any longer.

[littleacceb]

@RJnomore1 I was 24. Old enough to know better really, but if you grow up with it, it sort of becomes normal.

Ugh, I know you're right. I just can't talk to her like a normal person. She just looks at me with such disgust whenever I try to talk about anything serious. I've got to be brave. She won't be homeless or starving.

She's now acting like nothing happened and I don't even know how to bring it up.

[greenfolder]

You need to say

You are forcing me to choose between my husband and you. I choose him. You have 2 weeks to go

[GoblinLittleOwl]

Your mother sounds high maintenance, and extremely thick-skinned. She has probably made a career out of being supported by others: your father, her overseas partner, now you, with your sister and best friend as reserves. She has no intention of working and I doubt whether she would qualify for benefits or council accommodation, certainly not immediately.

I would think she is prospecting for a new partner, hence the clothes, nails etc, walking the dog:(good way to meet lonely widowers), lunches with friends, ditto, refusal to do childcare (no granny label) and she wants the house tidy in case she needs to bring someone back. I bet she has a huge amount of charm and a steely resolve to get her own way.

Your husband sounds as though he will lose his temper with her shortly; let him, then be ready with your ultimatums, presented oh so sweetly: she doesn't criticise you, your husband or your house, she gets a job and finds somewhere to live; and until she leaves she has a list of chores to earn her keep.

Expect she will be out within a week.