Clean Freak

[GivenchyWhat]

Name changed for this as the likelihood of this appearing elsewhere is very high these day.

I grew up in a pretty filthy home in the late 80's. 7 kids in the house, all close in age with 2 working parents meant that cleanliness was never high on my parents to do list.

I had one uniform for school and it would only ever be washed on a Friday evening, so if I stained it or dirtied it in any way, I would have to still wear it until Friday.

We had once a week baths on Sunday, washing up and bin were only dealt with when they reached maximum capacity, I mean dirty plates all over the counter and rubbish by the bin instead of in the bin because the bin was too full.

A few friends commented on the state of my home as a small child and by secondary, I never invited anyone home.

This has left me somewhat obsessed with cleanliness as an adult, everything has to be washed up immediately, baths/showers every day, clean clothes are a must and their can't be a crumb anywhere.

I have 3 DC, I've taught them from an early age how important cleanliness is, my eldest 16 and my youngest 7 have never given me trouble but DD 12 is practically at war with me over this.

She has to be called back to wash her dishes, she wears the same socks until they're not wearable, I have to argue with her to shower or have a bath every night, she tries to sneak food up to her bedroom which I can't stand, their bedrooms have to be clean before bed but all her clothes, books, bits of paper seem to cover every inch of her floor every night and every night I make her clean it.

Last night I told her to clean her room around 5pm, then repeated it after dinner, when I went up at 8, the room was a tip and she was fast asleep on the bed, it took everything I had not to wake her up and just go back downstairs.

This morning at 10, I told her she wouldn't be going anywhere until it was clean. She said okay and then at 11, her friend shows up, they were about to go up to DD's room when I asked DD if she'd cleaned her room, she said no, so I said the room was off limits and that they could sit in the Lounge.

After lots of eyes rolls and mutterings, they sat down and then when DD's friend left, I told her to clean her room again and she called me a clean freak.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable at all, what is so hard about wearing clean clothes and having a clean room. If her room was clean, they could have gone up there but it wasn't.

[julfin]

By the age of 12, children are turning into adults, their hormones are running riot, and they might start to get a bit whiffy. I really think a daily shower is a good habit to get into. Otherwise she might become "the smelly kid" at school.

[yumyumpoppycat]

I dont think yab totally unreasonable....but, something is not working so you need to make some changes. It does sound like you are probably nagging, maybe you need to have a chat with her and find a middle ground and make some new rules.

How about she has to give her room a basic tidy (make bed remove dirty clothes etc) before she can have screen time (I am in the middle of reading a parenting book ;) ) and just insist that if she is having a friend round it needs to be tidy (dd says this is standard with her friends) no tidy no invitee.

clean socks everyday is a must if no clear reason like that described by mrsD. I dont mind if dc occasionally sleep in their tshirt if its not dirty and they are v tired... actually tbh my dc insist thet sleep in their pants more often than not even though they have lots of pjs... Ihave given up on this and just try to insist they cover up before coming downstairs for breakfast.

Bathing all depends on whiffy greasiness - my 11 yo is not at that stage yet so its only 2 to 3 times a week. I am a bit of a slattern though.

I insist mine clear the plates from the table but thats it... but washing up in the scenario you describe is not U, however prob not totally hygenic either as will prob consist of quick rinse! When I was a dishwasherless child it was more a case of pitching in by doing the dishes once or twice a week.

[CharleyDavidson]

DH's father was in the forces and an extreme neat-freak. If you put down the paper to go and get something, you'd come back to find it thrown away. He nagged, nagged, nagged about standards and cleanliness.

As a result, DH is a hoarder and very untidy. It does my head in but I can see that it's a result of how he was brought up and a way of excerting some control as a child/teen that has become habit. He tries to be tidy. But leaves all sorts of stuff about.

Conversely, both DDs keep their rooms to an immaculate standard.

We also have the 'no food upstairs' rule. As much to make sure they see us and eat with us as to avoid a build up of plates/cutlery up there.

I do nag mine about personal hygeine. My sisters and I weren't brought up being told to shower etc. As kids we had the weekly bath and as teens we had to find our own rules for washing etc. 2 of us decided on showering/hairwashing regularly and I always wash daily, brush my teeth twice a day and wash my hair at least every other day. One of my sisters, however, never really got it. She doesn't wash and her hair is a greasy, unkempt mess most of the time.

Each to their own and as parents we are supposed to bring our children up as well as possible, but not allowing a few knives or forks to build up is a bit ott.

[dietcokeandwine]

I dont think you sound like a clean freak op, I'd say a daily shower or bath is normal for most people and certainly for a child on the brink of adolescence with hormones swirling around. I have a 12yo ds and a daily shower is definitely a must!

Clean clothes - underwear definitely yes, nothing wrong with re wearing outer clothes once or twice if they haven't got overly dirty.

I absolutely get the desire to have a room tidied at the end of each day because it's second nature to me and I love tidying up, I find it hugely therapeutic and satisfying. I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to tidy a room and have it looking all nice and comfy before they go to bed. Unfortunately I have to accept that 12yo DS does not share this view and so I let him keep his room as messy as I can stand. It's his room after all. Basically this means he has to bring down any dirty dishes or rubbish, dirty clothes need to go in the linen box and no clothes can be left on the floor, but if he wants to leave papers/books/random items of interest/Pokemon related tat strewn over the floor then that's fine as long as I can see some of the carpet.

If you can stand to, chill out a bit on the bedroom neatness. The rest is pretty normal in terms of expectations I'd say.

[Haggisfish]

Sorry givenchy it's the supercilious 'she must....' Attitude from some others that is riling me up! As if their opinion is fact. Wishing you and dd well for future.

[JenLindleyShitMom]

Being ocd clean isn't healthy,

No because OCD by its very definition is a disorder! Stop throwing it about like brand name.

[OctopusHairband]

Germs are ok you know, healthy even! Being ocd clean isn't healthy, and nor are lots of cleaning chemicals.

[Seryph]

Sorry but if I bathed/showered every day my skin would fall off! Even just plain water dries it out to the point of flakiness, leave alone soap.

My mum is like you, by the time I was in my late teens we came to blows over the state of my room.

Leave her alone, insist she tidies it once a week, but don't shout and fight about it.

[JudyCoolibar]

Compromise on her washing under her arms, round her foof and her feet instead of a shower?

[OctopusHairband]

Yabu. I think a daily bath or shower is a good habit but I wouldn't be too fussed if she doesn't want to.

The bedroom thing is really harsh imo, I think she needs to be able to relax and not be hassled.

[GivenchyWhat]

Haggis you're getting a little too emotional, chill the fuck out.

[thestamp]

Washing cutlery immediately after use???? That is mental!! Jesus Christ, the water wastage alone! I grew up in a dry country and my mother would have bollocked me six ways from Sunday for wasting water (and the energy to heat the water!!) by not waiting for a full sink of dishes to do...

That's not taking into account the waste of time. Go to sink; start water; wait for water to heat up; squirt soap onto cutlery (?), presumably rub/scrub individual piece of cutlery; rinse; put in drying rack. Really? How many times a day? I'd end up not wanting to eat for the faff of it tbh.

You are massively OTT! Your poor daughter!

Washing need not be daily, plenty of people don't even own pyjamas to sleep in, she'll soon learn that smelly socks aren't good for keeping friends or boyfriends... this is all completely not important stuff! Aren't you exhausted by caring about such minutiae??

Who tidies their room every single night? It sounds like you make the rules based on what ^you* like to do, not anything that actually makes sense or has a logical basis? Most people would be driven mad by this kind of thing....

[Haggisfish]

No she doesn't need to shower every fucking day.

[GivenchyWhat]

Okay the room I really can get past, I'll close it and mentally count down the days until it has to be cleaned.

Showers, I'll have to think about, going to bed without washing creeps me out a bit.

Clean clothes I can't back down on, she doesn't look dirty and she can sit around in her pj's all she likes but a day is my limit. Their's nothing hard about changing clothes, especially after a shower. Once she was out all day, had a shower and she put the same t shirt back on she couldn't see what was so wrong about it.

[ImperialBlether]

Everyone I know IRL showers every day and wears clean clothes - at the very least underwear, socks and a top - every day. I'd consider this normal.

A 12 year old girl really needs to shower every day. There's no way she'll be having a good wash instead. I think the only thing to do is to say that her friends will comment if she smells - that'd be worse than any punishment you could give her.

[Haggisfish]

I don't shower every day-every other day here. Stop imposing your ott tidiness (while it is understandable that you have this) on dds.

[JenLindleyShitMom]

Jenlindley, I'm really suprised at the replies, I thought a shower, clean clothes and a clean room were the very basics

I'm not anymore. MNers are proudly grim

[Gatehouse77]

I don't think you're a clean freak.

I did not grow up in the same situation as you but I consider daily washing a given and mine do too.

Mine are not allowed food or drink in their rooms either.

The dishes one I'm a bit meh about. As long as it's done by the end of the day I'm okay but I do nag them not to leave stuff in the living room. However, now and then I'll have a minor hissy fit and they will scurry around just to shut me up! Or because they know they're in the wrong and they've pushed me to the limit!
For example, I went out this morning and when I got back they were all lounging around in PJs but had made breakfast/lunch. So I refused to cook supper until the kitchen was sorted - dishwasher emptied and reloaded and washing up done. They did it.

[DollyBarton]

Jen, I wonder if people just talk more openly here. Like would you really know if all the people around you in real life showered every day or not? Contrary to you I find people on mn often OTT about cleanliness. Examples being toilet brushes, cleaning the toilet every day, changing bed linen daily and washing towels after one wash. Disinfecting every surface. Horrified at the thought of children's poo. Terrified of toilets flushing with the lid up. Refusing to buy anything at a bake sale in case kitchen hygiene isn't as good elsewhere. Totally and utterly exhausting attitudes to cleanliness I just couldn't fit in my head without getting very stressed out.

[Bountybarsyuk]

Your definition of clean isn't quite the same as some other people's though. Does your dd look dirty, or smell, or in any way seem unclean?

I'm happy for my older children (girls) to have a shower every two days, once a day if that time of the month though- I mean I'm happy for them to decide to do it like that, if they want to do it more often, that's fine too.

Tidying rooms is done once a week before the cleaner, and they are not super spotless.

I don't have as much invested in having a clean house as you, our house is clean, we have a cleaner, but it isn't a daily grind of keeping clean because there is only so dirty you can get in one 24 hours!

[julfin]

I agree with others, that she is reacting against your rules in the same way as you reacted against my parents. I did exactly the same - when I was little, my mum was a bit weird about tidying things, and I reacted by putting things away in the wrong places. I don't think I was trying to be obnoxious as such, I was just trying to make the point that she could do what she wanted and I wanted to do what I wanted.

I think she should tidy her room once a week, and then it can be hoovered etc straight afterwards. She shouldn't leave dirty crockery in there, and dirty clothes should go in the laundry basket every day. I think showering/bathing daily is normal, as are clean clothes (although that doesn't necessarily mean unworn, as long as they're still clean, except for underwear/socks which should be fresh every day).

Washing dishes is a household chore. Ideally she should share in the household chores, rather than washing her own dishes specifically. I used to do the hoovering in exchange for (a little bit of) extra pocket money. You could offer all 3 children the option of doing some extra housework, and she might be incentivised because she wouldn't want to miss out on the pocket money, especially if the other children are getting it. (But if she doesn't, that's her choice).

[WhooooAmI24601]

I'm a bit of a clean freak and shower every day and love the house to be clean. I just don't settle til it's tidy.

However, I have a 10 year old and a 5 year old and a dog, four cats, two rabbits and a DH. All a bit grotty and smelly and messy. All inclined to not follow my routine of "put it back right away and then Mummy won't have to screech". It's been a learning curve but I have had to back off; their bedrooms are their own. i draw the line at filthy/dirty rooms but clutter on the floor where they've got toys out and left them there? I have to leave them. I can't hoover their rooms every day much as I might want to.

Some of this is picking your battles, otherwise you're going to be butting heads with your DD constantly. Perhaps give her freedom in her room but have a rota for housework she has to help with. My DCs both help around the house and can sort laundry, put clothes away, fill and empty the dishwasher. But I won't butt heads with them over their bedrooms because they need to have a little freedom.

With the showers I encourage the 10 year old to shower most evenings because he does an enormous amount of sport. DS2 baths every two or three nights because he's a filth-magnet, but every night would aggravate his eczema. Toning things down a little won't hurt them at all.

[Tiggeryoubastard]

I thought you meant after a meal you'd all eaten together. I still think you don't know the difference between tidy and clean though. My ex sister in law is like that, she's filthy but thinks her home is a show home. I'd never eat there. Mucky cow (but I still love her though).

[JudyCoolibar]

Do you really make each of your children wash their own dishes? It seems terribly inefficient. Why not sort out a rota so that one person does all of them. Or invest in a dishwasher?

You also need to unclench about insisting dishes be washed up immediately and "there can't be a crumb anywhere". No-one ever died from leaving dishes unwashed or crumbs unswept whilst, say, the family sits round the table chatting or the person whose turn it is on the rota finishes their homework or watches their favourite TV programme. My mother was like you, and frankly it made for a really tense and unpleasant atmosphere because we were constantly aware of her being twitchy about some minuscule crumb that only she could see, or getting wound up because she thought we should have started washing up.

[GivenchyWhat]

Trinity

JenLindley, I'm really suprised at the replies, I thought a shower, clean clothes and a clean room were the very basics