To want to reiterate that 'yes' it's August and 'yes' Scottish schools are back

[MammyV]

Honestly on every post on here which mentions a child being in school at the moment, someone, at least one poster states 'are you abroad or something' or 'why are your kids in school it's only august?'
Please please understand that most Scottish schools commence back after summer from around the 15th August, we are not abroad, we are in the Uk (at the moment anyway) and I am fully aware of the English/Welsh holidays as its blasted a cross the BBC enough, just irritates me with some of the comments
(Will get off my Scottish high horse now)
Thanks xxx

[AndNowItsSeven]

Missed the it about moving areas no that's not guaranteed but be definitely won't be moving out of Liverpool.

[AndNowItsSeven]

Yes it's the first year and only in a very few areas, I live in Liverpool. Even then it's only guaranteed in community schools so not voluntary aided church schools or academies unless the head and governors give permission.

[MrEBear]

Andnow is this not the first year being able to defer in England has been a legal right with no worries about being forced to basically skip a year if you move areas / schools / start secondary school?

[CheerfulYank]

We used to have driver's ed in school but don't anymore, at least not in the high school I went to.

[Linnet]

Mathanxiety thank you for that info it was really interesting. The more I think about it the more I think it would actually be a good idea to learn to drive in school.

I did think wheel throwing might be pottery class.

[Puremince]

Yes, MrEBear, the holidays were all over the place in the c19th. Holidays in a berry-growing area were different to holidays in a tattie-growing area. In some herring-fishing ports they didn't have fixed dates, but announced the holidays according to the movement of the herring shoals. And in some places girls got a week off in May to help their mothers with the Spring Cleaning!!

[AndNowItsSeven]

My ds is deferring reception until 2017 he turned four this month. He will still have 15 free hours at nursery until the end of July 2017.

[MrEBear]

Puremince I didn't know the bit about parents wanting school to start younger. I'm guessing what was happening in Dundee was the same all over in different industries in different parts of the country.
Same with the school holidays were designed to help farming.

I did come across something that said 2 MPs argued 5 was too young school should start at age 6. Ok it was for the English legislation but I couldn't find anything on Scotlands other than we followed the English act a couple of years later. Then they raised their leaving age from 10 to 13 around 1880.

[tadjennyp]

We moved back from the States last year and dd went from 3rd grade into year 4 and was quite a long way behind the others in maths, simply because she had been at school a year less. It didn't make much difference for ds1 going into year 2, probably because of his autism posing different difficulties and ds2 has had a lovely time in reception this year going to forest school, doing swimming lessons etc!

I went to infant school in Wales, primary school in Scotland, junior school in London, middle school in Beds and secondary school in Lincoln. The difference between the different types of school and expectations was amazing. Very interesting if not altogether good for a shy girl!

[treaclesoda]

The discussion about what school year is equivalent to what other school year has just been brought to my attention today as I have a child visiting who used to go to school with my eldest but her family moved to England a couple of years ago. She transferred from P4 in N Ireland to year 3 in England and has now finished year 4. I was asking her this morning if she found school very different and she said 'yeah, it is totally different. Almost everything that we have done in year 4, I had already done in P4 at home, school over there is really weird'.

Now, sorry, I don't mean that to be offensive to anyone, I'm just quoting directly from a nine year old! But it sort of backs up the idea that P1 does not equal reception, P2 does not equal year 1 etc.

[Puremince]

In the 1870s, in parts of Scotland such as Dundee where married women worked in the jute mills there was pressure from parents for children to go to school from the age of 3 or 4. So the legislation worked both ways - some children who would have otherwise started school at 7 or 8 went at a younger age, but some who would have started at 4 went later.

I agree about deferring - I deferred my February born and am very glad I did.

[MrEBear]

Puremince ok I might have got my Acts mixed up. But basically our school starting age is based on 1870's legislation, that is hardly relevant to todays world. When I went hunting for the history or why we start kids so young in the UK I was expecting something to come up about some level of development that children reach at the age of 5. Not something related to starting work so young.
It just helped out in my decision to defer school.

I do feel sort for English parents having no flex at all in their system, being forced to start kids at just 4 even although legally those kids don't need to be in school. But if they don't start them they miss out on the scramble for school places.
I even came across the story of twins born an hour apart, either side of the cut off, being forced to attend school in different years. Completely bonkers.

[Puremince]

Oh,and the Education (Scotland) Act 1872 made education compulsory between the ages of 5 and 12, although half time education (working in the morning, school in the afternoon) was an option for ages 10 to 12. The majority of children weren't half timers so for the majority education was full time from ages 5 to 12 from1872 on.

[Puremince]

There was no UK law about compulsory education in 1873. There may have been a law in England, but in Scotland it was the Education (Scotland) Act 1872. I don't think there has ever been a UK wide education law; the laws about education have always been different in England and Scotland because we do things differently here. Which is the point of the OP.

[mathanxiety]

*There are five PE periods per week for everyone, so you drive about every sixth PE/driver's ed class. You will only rarely have a week without an in-car class.

[mathanxiety]

There is a driver's ed fee on top of the annual (nominal) registration fee and $300 book deposit. The driver's ed fee covers the cost of a learner's permit issued by the state, the state-issued learner driver handbook, and any other paperwork required by the state. Basically the school assembles all the necessary paperwork that parents and learner drivers would have to do if they were to go through a private driving school.

Then instead of one semester of PE, students in the 10th grade (sophomore year/second year of high school) who will be turning 16 that year do a complete driving course either in the first semester (usually nice weather to begin with but turning bad, and also dark earlier) or the second (freezing weather and wintry gloom to begin with but lovely and much brighter out at the end).

They first have to pass an eye exam and if necessary get corrective lenses, then pass a written exam based on the state handbook. If they fail that they go back to PE and will have to do private driving lessons and take their chances with the DMV written and driving test after private lessons and driving practice.

If they pass the written test they proceed to driving in the school fleet of driver's ed cars with some periods spent in the driving simulator lab and in the classroom, in the time they would normally be in PE. There are three students and one instructor in each car every day so not everyone can drive in each class period. Driving in the vicinity of the school is a hairy experience in the first month of each new semester when the students are creeping around trying not to wreck the school cars, or sometimes driving past stop signs, driving up over the curb, taking really wild turns, stalling, etc.

In the simulator and the classroom, failure to pay attention, 'bad attitude', missing classes, failure to get answers right in class and failure in the simulator will result in a driver's ed fail and placement in a PE class. There is very little that you can do in the car that will get you failed apart from complete recklessness in defiance of instructions. Everything else is considered to be part of the learning experience. DD3 drove a school car into a snow drift while making a right turn too tightly and everyone in the car missed the next class period while digging the car out. (The municipal snow ploughs tend to pile the snow up at intersections thanks to their ploughing pattern and it was a very snowy winter when she first started her driving course).

Students are supposed to have a minimum number of hours of actual instruction in a car, so absence on days you are supposed to be in a car will really hurt you - you can actually fail if you are absent more than once for an in-car lesson in my local school and you don't make up your absence (you can book a class before or after school).

Students are supposed to practice in the family vehicle too, and keep a log, with comments from the licenced driver who drives with them.

If you pass the driving test administered on the last day of your in-car schedule you practice for nine months in your family vehicle and then you and a licenced driver go to your local DMV, present your school-issued certificate, proof of ID, proof of address, and a log of your post-test driving hours (50 hours are required currently) signed by a licenced driver, and you may then be subject to a spot check by DMV or you may just get your eyesight rechecked in a machine and get your photo taken for your spanking new driver's licence that you will renew when you are 21.

DS got spot checked and passed.

Driving is considered an essential life skill in the US no matter where you live. I am in a close-in suburb of a huge city and there is decent public transport, biking lanes on the major streets, people tend to walk or ride bikes a lot, but still driving is considered essential. You never know where you might end up. Plus you might get a PT job at 16 and need some way to get there without spending a few hours on different buses.

In terms of a learning experience, driver's ed can be a really good thing because it offers immediate consequences for 'attitude' and almost no recourse to appeal in school. You can be booted out of the course and can take your chances with the DMV if you are disruptive. Most teens really, really want that licence, and it's amazing how much effort they are prepared to put into getting it.

Wheel throwing is a pottery class

[Linnet]

Mathanxiety

1 semester of Driver's Ed - you must pass your driving test either in school or in the DMV

You have to learn to drive to graduate from High School? How does it work? do the parents pay towards the driving lessons?

Although I can see pros to learning young (I chose not to learn to drive until I was in my 20's) and I understand that depending on where you live in the States a car is sometimes essential(where I live I can walk everywhere and there is fairly good public transport so it wasn't vital that I learned) but to have your education hinge on learning to drive is certainly different.

What is wheel throwing?

[MrsJayy]

Thank you for explaining the system cheerfulyank & Mathsanxiety always wondered my knowledge of US school system is TV

[MrEBear]

Thankyou those sound very similar to what goes on in our P1 & P2 years.

A bit of useless info for anyone who wants it. The reason why kids in the UK start school at 5, is because of the Compulsory Education Act of 1873. The aim was to get 5 years of school education before leaving for work at the age of 10!!!

Scotland used to have August intake March - August. January intake September - February. Meaning most children would be 5 or almost 5 starting school. That changed around 1975, using the February cut of so average of 5 years starting school. The right to defer came in the early 80's. Any child from Sep - Feb can be deferred although councils are only obliged to fund nursery for Jan-Feb babies. Most will fund Sep-Dec if nursery can provide good reason.

England used to have 3 intakes starting the term a child turned 5. They have changed to single intake but their laws haven't quite caught up with the fact that starting the year the turn 5 means the summer babies are just 4 starting school.

[SenecaFalls]

In my state, children begin to learn to read in kindergarten. There are state kindergarten curriculum standards for Language Arts, Math, Science, Social Studies, and Physical Education

[LunaLoveg00d]

(The sum total of my American High School knowledge is watching all of Glee).

[LunaLoveg00d]

7 electives (like wheel throwing, astronomy, etc)

Tell me more - American high schools teach kids to throw wheels???

[mathanxiety]

Kindergarten (age 5-6) is the year when children are first exposed to letters and numbers in a formal way. There is a lot of play.

Kindergarten Common Core standards

Many children will emerge from Kindergarten able to read, add, subtract. Many will start to do that in First Grade.

First Grade Common Core

In addition, social-emotional development is very much focused on - classroom etiquette, self care (changing out of jackets, boots, mittens/putting all of that on at the end of the day), care for classroom items, responsibility (students are given classroom jobs in a rota), interpersonal problem solving, co-operation, etc.

[MrEBear]

Can I ask what sort of work is done in Kindergarten?

I used to think it was more like our pre-school but more recently I have been thinking that it includes learning to read & write the same as Scottish P1 & English Reception.

[treaclesoda]

Agedrelative I knew that anyone local would know exactly what town I was talking about . It confused me for years!