That having a bikini wax shouldn't be a necessary part of any job?

[ThatsWotSheSaid]

I've been watching the amazing gymnastics at the olympics and every time I can't help but wonder if they are all happy to have such revealing gym costumes. I would hate to have a camera doing a slow mo when I'm legs akimbo in the air wearing so little even if the camera angles seem to be discrete.

I have tried to look up if there is a rule about the cut and if they wanted could they wear little shorts but I can't find anything. I did read if they remove a wedgie they get marked down?!

AIBU to think that in this day and age it seems a bit odd that these elite athletes need to be so scantily clad and that they probably have more to worry about than waxing, ingrowing hairs and itchiness in the run up to the games?

[devilinmyshoes]

As long as the differences aren't used to justify inequality such as has traditionally been the case in sport generally and of course more widely.

[MapleandPear]

So many on this thread seems to compare women to men and criticise women for doing things differently from the default/correct male way. We are men's equals. We don't have to be the same. PERIOD.

[meck]

Oh dear! I can well imagine


Interesting about the trousers. I wondered if there was some protective element for pommel, as some of them go perilously low, but that's complete, probably incorrect, guesswork.

[devilinmyshoes]

Googling 'male artistic gymnastics shave arms' brought me to a 2012 MN thread about Olympic pubes. It's a shorter and friendlier discussion than this has been.

[meck]

Rhythmic almost always do. Sports acro sometimes do (but not Olympics obviously) Not seen them at this level in the artistic though, personally.

[JacquettaWoodville]

Princess, most gymnasts don't have tights, I don't think.

[PrincessHairyMclary]

I also don't know why very one is going on about waxing the whole lot of. When I wore a leotard Id certainly tidy up as I would going swimming around the edges but really no real need at all to do the entire lot. Most of the gymnasts have nude dance underwear + tights you really wouldn't be able to see much anyway.

[PrincessHairyMclary]

I think the bulkier colour blocked trousers in men's gymnastics helps the judges see when their legs aren't together or straight on the pommel horse and rings etc if they were wearing ballet tights it would be difficult to see their legs contrasted against the back ground.

[devilinmyshoes]

It does seem quite obvious that their (male/female gymnasts) costume designs reflect their respective skill sets.

My favourite post on this thread is the one that pointed out how much the incredible US women's team have done to break down racism in the sport.

[meck]

Agree devil.

[meck]

The men don't have the same required elements in floor work, line isn't important to the same extent, somebody touched on this way back, but it is a long thread.
Someone also suggested the men should wear ballet-type tights rather than the bulkier trousers.

[devilinmyshoes]

With men it's about the arms, women the legs. That's my understanding anyway, men have stronger upper bodies and women have stronger lower bodies.

[meck]

It's not a pleasant or accurate comment, JudyCoolibar (and acronym sweary ). Mrslion wasn't struggling to follow any argument or grasp what she was saying. That seemed to be the stock response delivered to anybody who disagreed with her.

[HeyOverHere]

I've always wondered why the women got to wear things that gave them such freedom of movement, while the men usually have to wear long pants for a lot of their stuff!

[BertrandRussell]

Possibly. But still taking away choice. And, crucially, significantly different from the clothes the men wear. Who also have to show "line"

[meck]

It's about interrogating the choosers and designers of the leotards. Why have they designed a leotard that requires the removal of a significant amount of pubic hair- not just a few stragglers round the edges?

Higher cut is probably mostly for aesthetics, the longer leg line. Think of the lines of an arabesque, for example. Maximising points etc

[JudyCoolibar]

merchant I would class this post of yours as insulting
"Tbh I wouldn't worry too much about what VBmum says. .. She is struggling as much as MrsLion to follow any argument. All that she seems to understand is 'people are criticising some sports kit; my daughter plays sport; they are slagging off my daughter'. FFS."

It isn't insulting because it is an accurate depiction of what she was saying - and not only on this thread.

[BertrandRussell]

Sorry- not sure what happened there- the text kept disappearing so I did it again and it all seems to have posted!

[BertrandRussell]

"have also been repeatedly ignored. No one has responded to my questions on why pubic hair is so different to other hair, or why we are not accused of ignoring sexism by shaving our armpits or men shaving their face. Why is it different to other grooming?
Maybe you could give me that courtesy.

Men's beards are simply a matter of fashion- no man would attract prurient press coverage for having or not having a beard. I agree that armpit hair is also an issue- but there is at least a nominal practical reason for removing it, and it is also hair that is on public show a lot of the time. It would be good if women had a genuine choice about removing it too. Pubic hair is not commonly on display- if people choose to remove it that is their choice, but it is, however much people deny it, associated with sex and sexual maturity.

And no one has responded to my question about whether women at swimming pools or at the beach are interrogated as to whether they feel pressure to conform to wear something revealing or remove their body hair.

This is where the misunderstanding seems to be happening. It's not about interrogating the gymnasts about their choices. It's about interrogating the choosers and designers of the leotards. Why have they designed a leotard that requires the removal of a significant amount of pubic hair- not just a few stragglers round the edges? It is actually taking away the gymnasts choices. To conform, which is what people in a team want to do, they have to be hairless. And, whether they want to or not,have also been repeatedly ignored. No one has responded to my questions on why pubic hair is so different to other hair, or why we are not accused of ignoring sexism by shaving our armpits or men shaving their face. Why is it different to other grooming?
Maybe you could give me that courtesy.

And no one has responded to my question about whether women at swimming pools or at the beach are interrogated as to whether they feel pressure to conform to wear something revealing or remove their body hair.
This is where the misunderstanding happens. It's not about interrogating the gymnasts. It's about interrogating the choosers and designers of the leotards that require the removal of a significant amount of hair. Thus effectively taking away the gymnasts choice. And preparation the view that women need to be hairless and made up whatever else they are doing
There is a big difference between choosing to wax so you can wear a minute bikini bottom on holiday, and being handed your uniform and told "wear this- oh you'll have to wax unless you want your pubic hair to be trending on Twitter"
Ni

[meck]

I'm going to flag that (my post) up actually. VB mum chose to have her posts withdrawn after all.

[Felascloak]

Bert. You wrote "So your daughter would be perfectly happy for close up pictures of her "pubic area" to be all over the front pages of the Daily Mail and all over Twitter? To get vile sexual comments and abuse? Wow. One in 60 million, your daughter." To someone who is clearly very proud of her daughter and their sporting achievements. I would have found that comment upsetting in her shoes.
So yes I think that was unpleasant.

[MrsLion]

Ok so I couldn't resist coming back.

If some of you here feel I have been avoiding some points you make I will respond directly. Yes I believe in sexism and I see it all the time.

I see it at work, at see it in education and I see it all the time in sport. I've seen it at the Olympic Games in Rio.
It come from commentators, it comes from media, it's all around us.

But no, I don't believe it stems from the kit designers and I don't think changing the kit options will make sports less sexist. I don't think gymnastics contributes to 'unhealthy' attitudes, I think there's far more pressing issues with regards to sexual inequality than elite gymnastics.
I am not going to get dragged into justifying or explaining my views again, as there are literally hundreds made by myself, jiggly Meck and others that say the same thing over and over.

There have been very unkind remarks on here. The things said to volleyball mum were horrendous and personal. 'Stop talking about your daughters pubes, it makes you sound creepy'.

Really???? On what planet is that ok?

I was talked about long after I left the thread and accused of getting angry and worked up and unable to follow the thread.

I can follow the thread very well thank you. I just don't agree with you. Which seems to be making others rather angry.

I have also been repeatedly ignored. No one has responded to my questions on why pubic hair is so different to other hair, or why we are not accused of ignoring sexism by shaving our armpits or men shaving their face. Why is it different to other grooming?
Maybe you could give me that courtesy.

And no one has responded to my question about whether women at swimming pools or at the beach are interrogated as to whether they feel pressure to conform to wear something revealing or remove their body hair.

We all conform to social norms. It's how we function as a society. Yes some of these should be challenged or we won't progress, but making grooming choices or clothing choices that women genuinely are fine with into a sexism problem, is counter productive.

Yes maybe more women would want to do gymnastics if the kit was different but as many have pointed out, it's the other sacrifices you have to make at the elite level that drive people out. Not the comp kit.

[meck]

Ooh there is some swearing after all then, one of Merchant's posts, acronym style of course

Sorry