To have expected better from my DM

[Rockingaround]

We live down south, my family is up north, we visit as regularly as we can but school holidays and annual leave prevent it from being more often.

Back story
I have two DC - Dd6, Ds3 my brother also has two DNephew8 and DNIEce2. We have very different parenting styles. Although I love my DB they're very materialistic, my DN8 has had an Xbox 360 (equivalent) in his own room with flat screen TV since being 3, he's quite a sulky kid and never seems to let his hair down and have a laugh, he's had that super cool bravado since being 6 and doesn't get excited about anything, when giving him gifts he doesn't even open them, just carries on playing with his DS/IPad and doesn't say thank you, my heart kind of breaks for him as I honestly don't think he's a happy kid. It's difficult when we come home as I just have more battles with my kids over what they can do, treats, sweets etc as my DB allows Nephew to do/have whatever he likes, I'm not strict but my kids aren't allowed to have and do the same.

Today I took my kids and nephew to the pictures/cinema. My DM came with. She babysits my brothers kids all the time, takes DN to activities, days out etc, she sees them 3-4 times a week.

I then took us all for pizza afterwards. My kids are in awe of their cousin, they give him major love, say he's the best, fight to sit next to him, hang off his every word, run to meet him with massive cuddles .... To which they are met every time with a blank. Today was no different. He kept saying they were annoying him, whenever my Dd tried to speak he would shhh her and say he didn't want to listen right now, when she was keeping up with him trying to do the word search, he pushed her and said she was copying him, on the calculator he was whispering to my mum saying she didn't know what she was doing ...continuously putting her down when she was trying to tell him a tale. My DS3 went to hug him and he shoved him and said "get off". When leaving he pushed my daughter into the table and said "get out of my way".

Throughout the meal, I could just feel myself imploding, I brought my DD to sit by me (later she went back next to DN) she cried 3 times while we were in there, so I comforted her and just told her to ignore it. I felt really anxious and just wanted to protect my little girl. I didn't feel able to reprimand my nephew as tbh I don't see him enough to do so, I felt so uncomfortable and so so sad. I wanted my DM to step in and check his behaviour.


My DM whispered to DN to "please have some patience" in a completely nice way. When in the car I said to her "why was he so cruel to DD" "Oh they're just kids they're all like that" she said. "No they're not all like that, you should've told him not to treat her like that and made him apologise then we could've moved on" I said "You should've done that you were there" she said "why would I do that when you're there you're his grandmother he's more you're responsibility" she then said "I think you're being hypersensitive and over-reacting, you're trying to make me split between the kids and I won't do it" I said that was ridiculous and it's because his behaviour wasn't checked as to why it carried on and got worse.

Was I over-reacting? I'm all chewed up now and everyone has had an early night so I'm just sat here mumsnetting in the dark sharing a queen bed with both DC's My DH isn't here so I'm feeling worse and really just want

[maisiejones]

Was just about to post that soon someone would be along to say 'maybe he has special needs' but I see they already have. 🙄 Some kids are just spoiled and badly behaved.

[Rockingaround]

No it's all off now as my Sil text and said they've only just woken up so off to park instead. Relieved actually and pleased I haven't started a gulf iyswim

[rollonthesummer]

Are you taking your brother's child out again today whilst your brother first come?

Why?!

[RhiWrites]

ok my Dbro just popped in b4 work and said that they're all kids and they'll be fine and it's a nice day so we should still go out

Oh OP, why let him overrule your parenting decision? It wasn't fine yesterday so what's going to make today different?

Good luck though.

[RhiWrites]

I think your mother's remark about "you're trying to split me between the family" is interesting.

Maybe where you see her as a neutral party she feels she can't take sides. And I know it's maddening to call it 'sides' when one person is being mean, that's how she sees it.

I think you could have gently corrected rather than told him off eg
"That's not a nice thing to say, DN."
"It's DD's turn to tell a story now."

To be honest of all the things you've said its the attitude to present giving that sounds the worst. His parents should be teaching him to accept a gift politely. It would be so tempting to say "look if you're not bothered perhaps I'll donate this to a charity to kids who'll actually smile and be pleased to have it."

[llhj]

He sounds a brat to me. You sound lovely.

[cansu]

She should have told him off. You needed though to say something too and then be cross if she didn't back you up. Nip it in the bud straight away next time. He will soon realise that you aren't going to let him get away with it.

[myownprivateidaho]

It's really hard to tell how bad the little boy is because your level of dislike for him and his upbringing is so high. He shouldn't have behaved as he did but then again I think it sounds quite stressful to be touched and cuddled when he doesn't want to be, and it is annoying if someone else is looking over you shoulder when you're doing a word search. I don't know, perhaps he finds his cousins overwhelming.

I also get the impression that you too are subconsciously seeking his approval/ wanting you kids to win this from him. This is a natural reaction when someone is independent, confident and withdrawn I think. But you're not helping your kids by encouraging it. Treat him as a naughty boy, not as someone whose behaviour has the power to be devastating- no reason it should.

[davos]

Whoops cross posted with you op

[davos]

Op you talk to your kids about personal space. Ds (now 5) is a hugger, he kept hugging someone at school, when they've started in nursery. It became apparent one child wasn't comfortable with it. So I spoke to Ds about respecting people's personal space. It took a few goes. But we got there.

On the other hand, now, Ds has a younger cousin that hangs on his every word and is all over him and it frustrates the hell out of him. I and my dbro try and skirt the fine line between not upsetting either child.

Personally if any kid is upsetting or being rude to my kids, I would step in. Especially if the adult that is with them is not doing.

It maybe that your DN doesn't like younger kids, he may be spoilt or maybe he is just fed up. Maybe he has picked up on you being judgmental about his family.

My kids all understand that there are different rules when we are different places. Yes when we are visiting family there might be pudding and sweets on the go. But that's not how it is at home.

Can I also just say, I find opening presents in my birthday and Christmas excruciating. I hate opening presents in front of people especially when they are all watching. Dh understands and I used to open them alone. Since having kids I grit my teeth and get through it as they want to see me open them. But he is 8 not an adult, perhaps try to be a bit more understanding of who he is and don't assume it's down to rudeness.

But do step in when he is being blatantly rude.

[Rockingaround]

Morning! Thanks for your replies, ok my Dbro just popped in b4 work and said that they're all kids and they'll be fine and it's a nice day so we should still go out. I'm packing lunch now and will have a 'chat' with mine this morning about not hugging him, I'll also tell DD, that I don't want her to feel upset today so to just leave him to do his own thing. It's important to try, it's better than not going as that could create a gulf. I'll be more assertive but in a positive way.

[rollonthesummer]

Who cried -- your son or your nephew?

[Janecc]

It's unreasonable to expect your mother to step in because you didn't want to discipline your nephew yourself. You are there to protect your children so the job fell to you.

Perhaps your Dn is unhappy and you missed an opportunity to show him you love and care about him. Children need and crave boundaries. Moreover, it sounds as if you have a more boundaried parenting style and it would have been appropriate to show your Dn it is possible to be part of a group, who love and care for others. Right now his parents seem to be teaching him some very poor life skills.

And please be more assertive next time. It's highly inappropriate to give him the message he's running the show just to appease his parent. If your Dn doesn't get off his game, he doesn't get his present.

I don't think your mother was showing favouritism. I think she was showing lack of assertiveness, just like you. And when challenged, she explained away her behaviour just like your dbro. She may well be just as frustrated as you and also not want to rock the boat. Maybe she was waiting for you to step in. After all you are more his parents' age.

[DeathStare]

I think generally your DN behaved badly - though I agree with PPs that you need to tell your children not to hug/touch him if he doesn't like it. Just teach them to ask before hugging/touching people.

I agree with your DM though I'm afraid. If you were the one noticing it or bothered by it (I would have been too!) then you were the one who should have pulled him up on it. Your DM isn't any more his parent than you are.

[Inyournightdress]

Yeah I kinda agree that sometimes we have to teach our kids about the importance of personal space. I teach my kids that they are always free to show affection to me but that also they can say no to hugs if they don't feel like them, and other people can so no to hugs too. I think allowing children the right to say who can and can't physically interact with them is important.

[Dixiechickonhols]

I'd tell them to give nephew space and not everyone likes being hugged. He has verbalised and shown he doesn't like it. You wouldn't force unwanted advances on a non consenting adult. He says no loudly and pushes them away, exactly the correct response for unwanted physical contact.
It sounds like you are hyping things up, you are going to see your cousin and have a fab time. Maybe a more low key while everyone warms up to each other would be better. Could you try and come up with a solution like maybe a special cousin high five?

[FastWindow]

rocking so do i hope the cousins will be close. To that end, i allow some of the upsets to play out as if they were truly all siblings. They've got to learn to rub along together without constant referreeing (which is exhausting and counterproductive anyway)

But i will not tolerate unkindness, that's a different thing and nipped in the bud. Your dnephew sounds a bit pandered to, sorry, but on the other hand, he's only 8- and if unused to mad littluns, and if he doesn't really know you or them, then i can see how he might feel a bit overwhelmed. Still no need for him to be unkind though.

[Rockingaround]

worra what do I do, tell my kids not to hug their cousin who they haven't seen since Easter when all they've done is get excited to see their family since breaking up from school? It's just an odd lesson to teach them isn't it, "you can hug some family but not others" I like that my kids are loving and I think it's lovely they'd want to give him a hug when they haven't seen him for ages. I think that's fairly normal behaviour. Although yy - grown ups and PDA's is a whole Pandora's box

[WorraLiberty]

but just to clarify, they run to him with hugs when we first greet him. Today my DS3 tried to hug him once to which he was met with "get off" he also started crying. It was just a grey day and Its inevitable there'll be more as we are family

Again though, I'm not trying to excuse his behaviour but there are shit loads of adults on Mumsnet who say they don't like to be touched/hugged/feel invaded by PDAs.

Only this morning I was reading about a Mumsnetter who would hate to be tapped on the shoulder in a supermarket queue, because they don't like the uninvited physical contact.

Funnily enough I'm fine with that as an adult, but as an 8 year old child, I really wasn't and "Get off" would definitely be on my list of defence phrases

[Rockingaround]

barnacles you did right to take it off him, my Sil on DH side often asserts herself with my kids too, and I don't have a problem with it Fast you're right, it's the familiarity, I have no qualms in checking my friends DC's as they do mine, we see each other all the time; it's because I don't see anyone else ticking him off, but you're right I should just assert myself esp where my kids are concerned and I'm forever telling mine off and would absolutely have said not to harass him if that was actually happening. Shirley thank you, as mine are still so little I sometimes forget that one day they'll be all grown up, I'd love them all to be good friends too

[littleshirleybeans]

My ds are 8 and 9. My nephew is 13. I remember feeling very sad that they didn't see much of each other when mine were younger and there were a couple of times when my DN was a bit nasty to them. He was with his similar-aged cousin on his mum's side of the family when it happened. I had no hesitation whatsoever about giving the two of them a ticking off. (I wasn't nasty. I just pointed out that they weren't being very nice.)
My DN is a truly lovely boy and not spoiled in any way. I used to babysit for him all the time and adored him. Still do.
He was just playing up with his other cuz. I realised then that the age gap was too big at that point, despite the fact that my two were very articulate for their age and could hold their own. (Not boasting; my DN was exactly the same.)
Now that they're all older, the age gap has closed and they all get on really well and love hanging out.
I've seen my younger ds act quite disinterested with a close friend's grandson who was about 1 and 1/2. Ds2 wasn't very happy about him playing with any of his toys though ds1 was more tolerant. That was a couple of years ago when mine were 6 and 7. It was a bit like watching history repeat itself.
I think you should have said something to him and certainly, my mum would speak up in that situation. However, I can understand how you feel about the disparities in childcare etc.
I'm sorry that your children were hurt, I know exactly how it feels. If you can bide your time, however, I'm sure they'll be great friends when they're all older and the age gap isn't so obvious.
Sorry if this hasn't been very helpful.

[FastWindow]

Sod that, i parent my dnephews and dniece the same as my own dc. And my dss. If the older ones are being unkind, i tell them. But i would also make sure to stop the littler ones 'harrassing' the older ones, just so it seems fair and to give them a break- little ones are demanding for sure.

I definitely wouldn't wait to speak up. But , i am not in your situation. I know my nephews and nieces very well, and more to the point , they know me and respect my barked commands gently phrased wishes.

[Dixiechickonhols]

I'd guess your Nephew may have some additional needs whether diagnosed or not. It is clear he was wanting his own space yet you let the 3 year old hug him. He is 8 - saying get off and get out of my way seem an eminently sensible response from him. You have an idea of how children should behave and he doesn't fit it.
I'd have backed off and kept your children next to you. Not let them fight to sit with him and massive cuddles. I'm guessing a noisy restaurant and a 6 year old who wont shut up in his ear, again for 8 ssh I don't want to listen is telling you something.