AIBU to think I should get custody?

[NeuroGirl]

I've reached the last straw with my husband and I want out.

We've been together for ten years, married for 5. He didn't have a job until three years into our relationship, then despite his extensive education has been doing a GCSE-level entry job no more than 20 hours a week, 35 weeks a year, never earning more than £9 an hour. This is because he likes his leisure time (to play computer games).

We have a four year old son who is wonderful and who I love beyond measure. I have worked 3-4 days a week since he was three months old, and since a 18 months old he has been in nursery at least 2 days a week to give my husband a break.

Now I'm working full time, and my husband is not working, and our son is in nursery 4 days at considerable expense.

He does the washing up, puts the laundry on (won't iron or put it away), puts the bins out and does some basic cleaning if I prompt him. Everything else is up to me to organise, plan and do.

I'm so fed up with having to work so hard to keep him happy, he's honestly worse than our son. The last straw was when he has now point blank refused to have another child (I've maintained since the beginning of the relationship that I'd like a big family) because it's too much effort.

I need out, but I really don't want to leave my son. I don't think he'd want custody, and I think he'd cope appallingly being a main parent (e.g. I get up with our son at 6:30 and he lies in til 8:30 pretty much every day, naps every afternoon...) but I know on paper it would look better for him as he's not working full time and he looks like a house husband and I look like a crazy career woman.

I am so worried that if it came to a custody battle he would win.

[coconutpie]

He can want all he likes, doesn't mean he'll get it. Let your solicitor sort it out. He can't have residence - at the moment, he's not even a parent to your son!

[AcrossthePond55]

Say nothing. Agree with nothing.

Take what he's proposing to a solicitor ASAP and ask what they think vs what you want.

[NeuroGirl]

So: update.

I told him I was leaving. He was very sad obviously. He went to see his brother for a day or two then came back.

He wants residence.

He says that he 'wouldn't limit my contact', that I could 'come around most nights', and that he 'would make it work.

He thinks that family money will keep him afloat for long enough. He reckons a part time job fitting around DS's schooling will be enough to pay for everything (I've done the sums: it won't). When I asked about e.g. saving for university he had the gall to say that me and my dad wouldn't want him to go without.

Basically he wants me to do everything that I did before but thinks I will be happy to do it from another house. And I guess he hopes in time that I'll decide it's just easier to move back in.

And the thing is, I will - if it's what is best for my son.

No idea where to go from here. No idea how to make him realise how totally un fucking realistic it is to expect himself to be able to make this life change.

15 hours a week and not primary carer to full time single dad? He has no fucking idea.

[fryingtoday]

Sounds like I need to fire my solicitor and barrister given both have said 50/50 usual nowadays. Currently getting psych assessment of my ex to prevent it.

[sleeponeday]

Imo every other weekend is the norm. Sometimes with one week day. This is what is the norm in my social circle regardless of whether there is a sahp or not.

I'd agree. Most people end up with those arrangements, as far as I can see - one stable home setting, with lots of quality weekend time with both parents.

[sleeponeday]

For those who say courts don't award 50/50, what is realistic to expect then in this situation.

Courts do sometimes order equal time, but it's not remotely a starting point, or even that common.

On a thread like this you'd need to be very foolish or very ignorant to say what would happen - none of us have anything like enough information, which is why the OP w needs proper legal advice, and given every case turns on its own facts I'd very much doubt whether a solicitor could be certain either. There's no set formula in family courts, either with money or with children's arrangements. But 50/50 care is not seen as in the best interests of the children most of the time, and what is fair to parents just isn't important when set against that. It can happen, but it certainly isn't the norm, let alone the starting point. It's the starting point for financial arrangements and I think the confusion on MN may have arisen from that.

The general rule is that children benefit from continuity in care arrangements, most especially when things are changing through parental splits. So they don't look and see who is the "best" parent; they tend to try to keep the children's lives as similar to the existing status quo as possible, with lots of good quality time with both parents. If one parent has done most of the care, then that's relatively simple. In situations where things are more complicated then a lot of the time they seem to have regard to the pattern of care adopted in the run-up to any contested hearing - which has then become the status quo by default. They will also look at the quality of relationships between the children and parents and have regard to the wishes of the children, if they're old enough.

50/50 does happen, but it's not by any means the norm. There was an attempt to get that changed a few years ago but the research commissioned at the time showed children tend to do best when they have one identifiable home base rather than two - they can feel split and living out of suitcases. It is used when parents are so mutually hateful that equal time prevents either from having the upper hand, but even that's pretty rare. I think it happens when people get along well, make their own arrangements, and that suits all sides. After all, very, very few cases ever ended up in court even when there was legal aid available. Most of the time, people arrange things between themselves.

In this case, he doesn't sound very responsible or an adequate parent to us, no. But he would present his own version of the facts and we don't know what those would be, or how CAFCASS would see it. It doesn't help the OP for us to assert legal facts with huge confidence when we don't really have a clue.

[AcrossthePond55]

Chikara the 'reverse' would be true if the SAHM spent her time during the day playing games. If that SAHM had declared her intention of never working more than a few hours a week. If that SAHM put the children in daycare rather than care for them herself. If the DH came home to do the housework and daily childcare duties. I doubt very much that she'd get much sympathy. There was a recent thread where a SAHM was slated for spending large sums of family money so it's not a situation where SAHM's are the anointed few on MN. Everyone in a family needs to pull their weight, OP's husband is not.

[TealLove]

Ok this is going to sound harsh but the best thing about this scenario is you haven't got more children with him.
I suggest you extract yourself from this drudgery. I think you'll be so much happier and find someone who appreciates you and doesn't use you.

[KoalaDownUnder]

Chikara, what a load of bollocks.

1. He is not depressed
   
2. He is spending his time, and family money, on a Masters that is unlikely to lead to a job
   
3. He has announced that he never wants to work full-time
   
4. He is a 'SAHP' to a child who is barely at home. (I'd just call that 'unemployed'.)
   
5. He doesn't do any of the mundane child-rearing activities with said child
   
6. He spends large amounts of time playing computer games and out with his mates.
   

This is the lifestyle of a self-indulgent teenager, not a husband and father.

Don't trot out the old line of 'If the sexes were reversed, nobody would sympathise with the OP'. That is utter rubbish.

When did our expectations of men get so low? Fucking hell. If I hear about one more husband on mumsnet who is 'a great dad' because he plays with his kid, yet does fuck-all of the actual slog-work of parenting, I will scream.

If a woman acted like this, nobody would say she was 'a great mum'. Get real!

OP, please get rid. I couldn't stand this either.

[Ambivalence]

Ah, that's interesting. Thank you x

[Careforadrink]

Ambivalence

Imo every other weekend is the norm. Sometimes with one week day. This is what is the norm in my social circle regardless of whether there is a sahp or not.

[Ambivalence]

For those who say courts don't award 50/50, what is realistic to expect then in this situation. I can understand why the OP wants her son to live primarily with her, however much the dad likes playing and fun times with his son, doesn't the son also need a responsible parent who will do the non fun things that are needed as well, and that falls to OP ( mum) in this case

[LumpySpacedPrincess]

But he isn't trying to better himself, and he isn't depressed, and he isn't a SAHP. He stays homes and plays games.

[Jaynebxl]

Chikara he isnt staying at home to study while the child is in nursery. He hasn't started his study course yet. He stays home to play games.

[sleeponeday]

Nowadays if it ends in court it will be 50/50 unless a big reason why not

This is constantly repeated on Mumsnet, and it's just not true.

[fryingtoday]

Nowadays if it ends in court it will be 50/50 unless a big reason why not - which I don't think you have. Far better to try to negotiate between you.

[Chikara]

So you have a depressed husband who is trying to better himself. You are earning more than he is. You don't think he does enough around the house or that your DC should be in nursery so that DP can study.

Fair enough if you want to leave him but if a SAHM who was depressed and the husband was complaining about how much she did round the house there would be sympathy for her.

You want more children with him and he has said "No" which sounds sensible considering you want to leave him. If you don't love him then you don't love him. Fair enough. But I bet your DS loves him.

Why wouldn't you want your DS to spend as much time with his father as possible? And why would you "fake" and play a devious game rather than discuss this like an adult with the man that you are sharing your life with. I would talk to him. Tell him you have planned to leave and work out what is best for your child.

[NeuroGirl]

Thanks all the the support. Spoke to a social worker friend who basically said that if I come across in mediation as reasonable, calm, generous and child-centred then he should realise that a court case would be money down the drain.

quitelikely, I've been told for years that I am a difficult person to live with, that I fly off the handle easily and nag constantly, that the balance of work is perfectly reasonable and it's only my (minor, well-controlled) depression which makes me think otherwise. Things that were said in the context of the discussion around having another child gave me the power to properly doubt these 'truths'. When I mentioned that I was sad enough to be thinking about leaving, he told me I was being childish, flaky, unreasonable and selfish, and that no one around me would support me (also not true). Is it any wonder it's taken me a while to pluck up the courage to make this decision?

[lougle]

You know he can get a non-meanstested student loan for the Masters fees that he'll only start paying back once he earns over £21,000? Why on earth would you fork out your hard earned money on his whim?

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

And quitelikelys post is worse

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

There is an underlying theme through this thread, which has been voiced by mathsmum314 that this is somehow the OPs fault. Why are we so eager to criticise other women even when they've clearly seen the light and moved on? It's horrible.

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

This is a question not a challenge but if he doesn't work would be able to pay a solicitor to fight for any sort of custody?

[QuiteLikely5]

It's worrying you are only thinking about leaving this man because he won't give you another child...........

Despite all your attempts at justification it says more about you than it does him!

Is he ok as long as he is a sperm donor?

You are only thinking about what you want and not about the interest of the child

Very worrying and a road to nowhere/disaster

[LumpySpacedPrincess]

OP, you've been posting about him for years haven't you, nice to see you are moving forward.

[Ambivalence]

He hasn't started the masters yet according to OP...