Emergency surgery for 3yo - work response

[CustardLover]

My DS had to have emergency surgery after chipping his elbow (I know!) and I was off work for two days - firstly A&E and then the op and an overnight stay. Work has now asked me whether I want to log it as unpaid parental leave or take my last two days of holiday. This feels pretty petty to me; I answered emails and took a call when DS was in surgery! AIBU to ask them to reconsider and categorise as compassionate leave? Those of you who are employers, WWYD?

[pollymere]

If your child was off school sick, you wouldn't expect to be paid, you'd just be grateful that work were ok with you not being there and weren't demanding you arrange childcare and come in. Equality means than anyone can now take unpaid leave or holiday in this situation. My Mum would have worried about losing her job, not whether work paid her for it! A good employee might ask if your DS is ok, it's not unreasonable for them to send a few emails or calls, it was up to you whether to take them. My husband's had to answer emails and take calls whilst on paid holiday, literally on the beach so I understand the pressure to answer but you were free to ignore it...

[ShtoppenDerFloppen]

We are in Canada - stingy, and legal too.

In fact, the employer is not actually obligated to give you the 10 days off, merely 4% if your income as "vacation pay".

So, you may take days and withdraw equivalent funds from the accrued vacation pay, or you may just withdraw the funds and still work (which the overwhelming majority of employees in this field do).

[Sara107]

My work offers an option of ' domestic emergency ' leave where you can have paid time of up to 3 days off if something happens that you could not have reasonably planned for like your boiler bursting ( or 3 yo chipping their elbow!!). You are expected to get back to work as soon as you can get things organised. I would say that 2 days off in this situation is quite reasonable particularly as you are keeping in touch and doing what you can remotely. Of course it does depend on your role, but I do find it depressing how many people have such inflexible, pettily mean employers , and also how wound up other people seem to get by their colleagues having time off for anything.

[HeyRobot]

Hope your son is doing ok.

I think if an employer isn't going to pay you then it should be made clear ahead of time so it is accepted that you won't be doing any work during that time. If you say you can check email/take calls they should be required to inform you that you are not required to and won't be being paid.

Otherwise it's setting up an expectation that you will work - at a time when actually that might be very difficult, logistically and emotionally - and then they say you're not being paid for it.

[Xmasbaby11]

Hope your son is ok.

My work (university) would pay. I've been off 5-10 days every year with my children's illnesses (not serious but no other option) and it's never come out of annual leave. They are very sympathetic and tell us don't worry, family comes first.

[PersianCatLady]

I am glad that you are getting the days as PAID leave but I also don't think you really would have had anything to complain about if they had insisted that you took them as UNPAID leave.

[Oakmaiden]

If companies gave paid leave to parents for these reasons they would never employ women with children.

Grrr. But employing men with children would be fine?

[IsItMeOr]

Sounds like a great result custard.

[SeptemberFlowers]

Glad you got a good result OP

I've applied for parental leave in the past (gave 21 days notice) and it was refused in the grounds of "we don't authorise unpaid leave".
So I was stuck.

[IssyStark]

We have 5 days family/emergency leave which is fully paid and at my grade I am contracted for 39 hours but expected to work until the work is done without TOIL or overtime (which lower grades do get). It balances out - I give more without complaint and get flexibility when it is needed. OP I'm glad the jobsworth in HR has seen sense.

[foursillybeans]

Yes sadly YABU. It just the tough luck that comes with juggling work and a job.

[LooseAtTheSeams]

OP glad you got it sorted! You had a really strong argument and it just shows it's worth demonstrating what you give to the company. The problem is the law on dependent leave is a bit vague. You have the right to take the time off to go to the hospital with your son and your employer can't make you take that as leave. (It's their decision whether they pay you.) However, they can ask you to take it as leave on day 2 if he isn't in hospital and they can also limit the time they consider to be dependent leave. (Parental leave is quite different because that's agreed in advance and always unpaid).

[starfishmummy]

Mine has several types of emergency leave. All are designed to cope with the immediate "crisis" and the time off and paid or not does vary at the managers discretion but within set guidelines. Child care is more likely to be one or maybe two days and unpaid - largely because some people were abusing it. I have had two days unpaid for hospital situations with ds - longer to be annual leave (no parental leave left in my case!). I think it was fair enough.

[Discobabe]

They probably just want to ensure your wages is correct for the end of the month, I don't think it's petty. It's a slippery slope if they start paying employees for random time off if it's not already outlined in their company policy. X got paid time off for this why can't I have paid time off for that sort of thing. I think it also depends on the company and how big it is, what the employees are like. Some companies and it's employees are very give and take and it benefits everyone, other companies have too many piss takers so there is no give and take situation at all eventually.

I hope your ds is making a good recovery.

[IsItMeOr]

Link re unpaid parental leave.

[IsItMeOr]

Can employers refuse Parental Leave stating they don't do unpaid leave ?

No, September, it's a legal entitlement. But OP's employers are being generous with allowing them the option of taking just two days (it is usually in blocks of a week), and I think they are waiving the notice period.

[IsItMeOr]

YABU OP, this is what unpaid parental leave is for. They are being generous in allowing you to use your paid annual leave instead.

Hope your DS is better soon.

[IsItMeOr]

Shtoppen I think you can't be in the UK, as that annual leave doesn't meet legal minimum here (28 days, which can include bank/public holidays).

We also don't have an allocation of sick days, but rules about statutory sick pay.

[SeptemberFlowers]

Can employers refuse Parental Leave stating they don't do unpaid leave ?

[joanofgraceland]

I ALWAYS took holiday leave when my children were ill and I needed to be off. You cannot expect an employer to give you days off and pay you when your children are ill. It is not the employer's responsibility but yours. Also what about all the single people or those without children? Do they get paid, extra days off on top of their normal holiday allowance? Then you should not either. I sympathise with your plight as I have experienced it many times, but I feel that honesty is the main concern here. I never once rang and said I was ill - I was always honest and in fact always saved 3 days holiday per hear for just such emergencies.

[Jessikita]

I am fortunate enough to be employed by the council with pretty good benefits and they wouldn't pay for this leave. They would offer flexi/hols or unpaid parental leave.

[Dontyoulovecalpol]

In these circumstances I always establish exactly how the leave is to be taken before doing any work because if I'm on holiday or unpaid I'm not doing a thing. Not helpful now but they are not really being U refusing to pay you, it would
Just be nice if they did

[amidawish]

Well done OP on fighting your corner. Shame you had to though! I must say I wouldn't be very impressed.

[Balletgirlmum]

Not in our company it isn't.

[AndNowItsSeven]

Ballet no, compassionate leave is paid.