To think if you cannot add one half to one quarter you really should not be in teaching

[mrgrouper]

I am starting teacher training in September and so have joined some teacher training Facebook groups. We all have to pass professional skills tests in literacy and numeracy. The tests are pretty easy but there is a mental arithmetic test that a lot of trainees are panicking on. A woman has posted that she is doing the mock test and it claims one half plus one quarter is three quarters and she has no idea how the examiners had worked this out. She is not training to be a maths teacher but surely all teachers should know basic maths. I knew this stuff aged 7.

The tests you do for teacher training are very easy and if you can't pass them first time then you shouldn't be a teacher. Honestly I've heard of people taking the maths one 10 times before passing. Basic maths skills are required in all subjects, for example scaling in art.

I am inclined to agree, OP.

If you cannot add a half to a quarter, you shouldn't be in teaching.

You are not allowed to sit the professional skills tests 10 times now, they have changed it to a maximum 3 attempts.

I think it benefits children to be around and influenced by intelligent adults. Someone panicking over 1/2 + 1/4 doesn't look so intelligent. Now, I appreciate we all have blips, forget things, maybe missed learning something along the way. But then, of course, all a competent adult has to do is to look it up. Why panic, when the internet is at your finger tips?

So in my eyes, this person is doubly damned. I think the lack of initiative to sort things out is as bad as the original ignorance.

Our DC do deserve better.

Ending a sentence with a preposition is not considered to be very good grammar, if you wish to be critical.

Most of teaching is being self reflective and willing to learn

Huh?! I get that we're all lifelong learners, but as a teacher you have to bring a certain level of knowledge to the table. If you went to an evening class in, say, Spanish, you'd be pretty fed up if the teacher announced they were learning alongside you. You were expecting to be taught . It's one thing learning about Amphibians together and thinking, Gosh, I didn't know a toad could do that, but quite another if you are unschooled in basic arithmetic and spelling and grammar.

But she has used her initiative to help her - she has posted in a group of her peers - maybe not in the best way but she is seeking out help.

There has been a limit of 3 attempts since at least 2008 when I did mine I am sure it was in much before that.

Given every parents evening I have with between 30-60 students I normally get at least 50% of parents telling a student 'don't worry I was no good at maths' - it really doesn't help!

Just for you Goblin, from blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/11/grammar-myths-prepositions/

This is the sort of English up with which I will not put!

Although Ben Zimmer seems to have laid to rest the myth that the above witticism can be attributed to Winston Churchill, the quote illustrates that trying to avoid a stranded preposition could lead you to get your linguistic knickers in a terrible twist.

In fact, there are four main types of situation in which it is more natural to end a sentence or clause with a preposition:

passive structures (she enjoys being fussed over)
relative clauses (they must be convinced of the commitment that they are taking on)
infinitive structures (Tom had no-one to play with)
questions beginning with who, where, what, etc. (what music are you interested in?)

Most attempts to avoid stranding or deferring prepositions in the following examples end up sounding over-formal, awkward, or like Yoda in Star Wars...

To sum up, the deferring of prepositions sounds perfectly natural and is part of standard English. Once you start moving the prepositions to their supposed ‘correct’ positions you find yourself with very stilted or even impossible sentences. Well-established and famous writers over the years, such as George Orwell, Anthony Burgess, and Julian Barnes, have been blithely stranding their prepositions to no ill effect: please feel free to go and end a sentence with a preposition!

I get that we're all lifelong learners, but as a teacher you have to bring a certain level of knowledge to the table.

It's not realistic to expect teachers to have covered every aspect of the course they're teaching through their previous study. I've been tutoring my dh in medical physics so he can teach his A level group and really stretch the top students. Even if you have done something as part of your degree you can easily forget it if you haven't used it in a while. Every year I have to revise parts of the organic chemistry modules that refuse to stay in my head. I still get great results from my students.

I'm sorry but I disagree. My partner is starting teacher training in September and had to take the test. He passed quite easily, but I ran through the practice papers with him, they aren't piss easy by any means. Some people are still retaking it before the course starts, just because you found it easy doesn't mean it is. I'd rather a teacher who may not be excellent in maths but can actually teach, over a know it all. I'd be more worried about a teacher who looked down at a colleague in such a way, what must they think of children who 'don't get easy work' first time around.

Ah I am glad it's changed to maximum of 3 attempts, it's been a while since I did them.

But this is completely basic and it's something you'd need to know in real life!!!! It's not a quadratic equations FFS. I wouldn't want a teacher teaching my dc who didn't know 1/2 + 1.4.

Agree, it is in no way comparable to medical physics.

My daughter was educated abroad but did her teacher training in the UK where the first thing they did in year one was basic maths/spelling/grammar revision. It was a bit of a shock. Even more so when she realised why it had been timetabled.

I was responding to rhoda's post margrethe. I should have copied the next sentence to make it clearer. It is possible for teachers to stay just ahead of their students and still do a good job.

The person from the op's post has a lot of work to do before they should be let loose on a maths lesson.

I'd be more worried about a teacher who looked down at a colleague in such a way, what must they think of children who 'don't get easy work' first time around

I dont think you can compare the two.

I despair that so many people in the UK think that it's OK and almost expected to be rubbish at Maths. I bet hardly anybody would turn round to their child at parents' evening and say 'Don't worry, I was no good at reading and writing', so why is it so much more socially acceptable to say that about Maths?

It's ridiculous to say she might not have done it since GCSEs. I haven't either but seriously? It's not difficult!

I mean even if you don't get the numbers surely saying it out loud, a trainee teacher should have the brains to imagine a cake or something and work it out?!

It's adding a half to a quarter FFS - not 'stretching' A level students!!!

1/2 plus 1/4 is such a basic life skill, I can't see how you could manage any kind of teaching not being able to grasp it - dividing up the canvas for art, putting students into even numbered teams for sports / drama groups, following a recipe in cooking, working out test marks. Actually, can't think of any job which would not require these skills..... And how can you even manage to do the weekly shop?!

The idea that someone who cannot understand these concepts might also be put in charge of teaching them is scary! In our school, very practical hands on fractions work begins in Reception (dividing a pile of Lego bricks in half for example). How could you be allowed to teach Primary without possessing the skills children are learning at age 5 - 7?

The idea that someone who cannot understand these concepts might also be put in charge of teaching them is scary!

Isn't that the whole point though? They sit the tests to make sure they have a minimum level of maths and English. Does it really matter if a candidate has forgotten how to add fractions, does some revision and then meets the standard required? As long as they're fluent in the maths content from the national curriculum by the time they start (ideally at least up to year 9 level if they're teaching primary) what's the big deal?

purple an inability to cognitively process that simple calculation, even when given the correct answer, would indicate someone of an IQ who should not be in charge of instructing children.

PurpleDasies I think if the tests either weed out those who don't meet the standard or give them enough feedback to improve then yes, it's fine. But I'd doubt somebody who struggles with 1/2 plus 1/4 would ever be able to reach the standard? Especially if the standard is up to Year 9 level.

Also, how far through the training do they get before being tested? Is testing done right at the start to ensure money isn't spent on training unsuitable candidates?

Hmmmm. I teach Biology and have a Biology degree. In my first year a pupil asked if a shark is a fish or a mammal. I had to look it up at the time (it's a fish). Lots of info is in those little grey cells and it needs refreshing, especially if you're a mature teaching student.

Also, how far through the training do they get before being tested? Is testing done right at the start to ensure money isn't spent on training unsuitable candidates?

You have to do them before you start.