To resent my DIL a tiny bit?

[TessieMec]

please be kind, I'm new here! Just after some advice. I'm 56 and have 2 adult sons (this concerns my eldest, who is 30). He married my DIL 3 years ago. Now I must say, she's a lovely girl. Kind, always polite and good fun to be around. She clearly dotes on my son for whom she does everything (I tell her to get him to do housework but she says she wants to and it's easier as she works from home and he commutes quite far to work). They are happy. This is good, obviously.

My husband (who is not sons dad but brought him up ever since we got together when son was 2) and I live about an hour and a half away. Son and DIL live 5 mins from her parents (she has never admitted to me that this is the real reason she moved there although I haven't directly asked). They are always at her parents. From what I can tell, they go over most Sunday's and DIL sees her mum regularly so seems a bit ott. DILs parents are very nice people but see DIL as a bit of a princess and lavish her and DS with attention and nice holidays, things, meals out etc. This isn't about money, as we are not struggling so don't get the wrong impression. I have noticed that when DS is around his Pils he is different to how he is around our family and they speak to each other as though they are all friends. I really notice this when I am around my son and DIL's parents. Lots of jokes and v informal.

I guess we are a little less 'fun' and I am the first to admit I'm not overly maternal but I do resent the fact that we never hear from them. DIL and son might text from time to time but I never hear from them. I don't like to interfere so obviously I don't harass them. Perhaps DILs parents impose on them but I don't want to be like that. Every single Christmas they spend Xmas day at her parents and DIL and son have us over at theirs on Boxing Day. Always the same and I anticipate this year to be the same.

Here's the thing. Son told me about 6 months ago that DIL is having fertility treatment but I didn't pry so I assume IVF. They haven't updated me once ever since. I know it's not DIL per se as she's not a nasty girl but I feel like they are all for her parents. My son is as much to blame here and I know he also prefers her parents as he is now very good friends with DILs brothers. I can't help but resent DIL.

We have another son (he and his brother are not close) but I feel like son just acts as though he has made a decision to prefer her parents and doesn't make any effort with us. AIBU? Has anyone else ever been placed in this position?

[AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected]

We dont know if the OP was not close to her DS when he was younger. You are making a huge assumption there. They may have drifted apart only since he met the DIL "I guess we are a little less 'fun' and I am the first to admit I'm not overly maternal"

The OP has been given loads of practical advice, i.e. work on nurturing your relationship with your son primarily, and then DIL, rather than scapegoating the time they spend with the ILs for your distant relationship. Oh and don't demand equal christmasses, if your relationship was better, it'ld progress organically to sharing more special occassions

[Aerfen]

Startrek
I said neither of the things you attribute to me.

Woofle
We dont know if the OP was not close to her DS when he was younger. You are making a huge assumption there. They may have drifted apart only since he met the DIL.

This is yet more blaming the MIL and the son when we just do not know!

[wooflesgoestotown]

Relationships between adult parents and children are established in childhood not adulthood imo.
If you aren't close with your ds now it's because a close relationship wasn't established when he was a child.
If you want it to change then I think you need to talk to him honestly about it and see if your relationship is capable of change.
It may be that he harbours anger and resentment from his childhood and he doesn't want to establish a close relationship with you any more.
Or it may be that he would dearly love to improve things.
You won't know unless you talk to him about it.

[startrek90]

Where is it indicated that the DIL has excluded her? You just made huge assumptions about this woman.

You still haven't explained WHY it is the DIL responsibility to sort this out for the OP and her DS

[Aerfen]

Correction: them

[Aerfen]

Agree with you there Cuboid. Much of the thread has been about whose 'fault' it is, when the real need of the OP is advice on how to gain better access to her them, and especially later on if GCs come along.

If the DIL manages to get pregnant, I think that could give the OP a real opening and a chance to become more involved unless the DIL is absolutely determined to exclude her (hopefully not). Wholehearted delight at the pregnancy is an absolute must in this case!

[CuboidalSlipshoddy]

I am not saying that IS the case, but its equally ridiculous to put all the blame on the OP

It's irrelevant, however. The OP is upset: she wants relationships to be different to how they currently are. The DIL, from context, isn't upset, and doesn't see any reason to change. So whoever's "fault" it it, unless the OP is going to be made happier by knowing she is blameless, the only way things are going to change is at the OP's behest, because she's the one with the problem she wants to solve.

[Aerfen]

startrk said
"You are being so sexist Aerfen. The only way women are going to stop this expectation of emotional labour is if they stop doing it."

No I am not being sexist. I am acknowledging that still roles of men and women in the family are different. They have drawn closer together but they are not identical. Still far more women than men with children work part time for example and still women far more than men organise family activities.

Its no surprise that the majority of posters who are mostly women not men, DILs but not MILS are casting DILs in the role of innocents and blaming EVERYONE except the DIL in the OPs post. The MIL is to blame, the son is to blame, but NOT the DIL.

The OP has been remarkably self depracating describing herself as 'less fun' and 'not maternal' but if we are to take her description as accurate (and who knows she may be just insecure and intimidated by the DILS louder more extrovert family), then equally you should accept her description of the DIL as 'princessy' i.e a little spoiled, bratty, likes to be the centre of attention, likes her own way. To ignore this is just confirmation bias.

What makes you think she is blameless? How do you know she isnt immature and selfish, prefers being her parents 'little girl' and is cleverly but determindly putting barriers in the way of her husband and herself spending time with the PILS because she just doesnt want them around?

I am not saying that IS the case, but its equally ridiculous to put all the blame on the OP and her alleged 'bad relationship' with her son. Sh said nothing implying her relationship with her son wanst good, ONLY that she doesnt see much of him now. She doenst even say if she saw more of him before this DIL arrived on the scene. Maybe she did!

[AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected]

Kristina. There has been a great deal of 'blaming' of the OP on this thread while she herself has been 'blaming' the DIL

The OP said in her opening post that her family isn't as much fun to be around, and that she is not "maternal" - posters picking up on that are not "MIL blaming" - they're listening to the OP who clearly IS less good company than the ILs here

But I suppose its the DILs fault, she should MAKE her partners mother be more fun and maternal?

[BarryTheKestrel]

Frankly YABVU. It is not her job to keep you informed. It is also not entirely your son's job. You have said you don't have much contact with them, if you don't put in the effort why should they?
My grandparents are very similar, they never call or text and hardly ever see us, yet complain to anyone who will listen that we don't care and they don't know what's going on in our lives. I make a point of calling them once a week to keep them at bay but they are disinterested and never ask any questions.

Stop going on about not wanting to impose, harass or hassle and contact your son and talk to him. Make plans with them. See them as a couple. This is what her parents do, which is why they see them more and are close to them.

Being family doesn't entitle you to anything. Putting in the effort and showing you care gets you much further.

This is not her fault. Do not blame her or her parents in this. This is between you and your son and the evident lack of relationship you have.

[startrek90]

Why should the DIL 'make an effort' to get a reasonable balance? Have men not got voices? Have men got a complete inability to manage their own family relationships? Are they incompetant? Are they just too stupid to manage relationships? Why aren't men good at maintaining relationships?

Surely if they are not good they need more practice then.

You are being so sexist Aerfen. The only way women are going to stop this expectation of emotional labour is if they stop doing it.

It is perfectly reasonable for a woman to refuse to manage the relationships of her husband.

He knows his family better than she, he understands the dynamic better than she does. If he chooses not to do that labour then that is on him, not her.

Why do you expect women to do all the emotional labour?

My MIL doesn't expect me to manage hers sons relationship with her. He is a big boy and does it all himself, right now he has taken our son to see her -I am not avoiding her btw I just got a lie in instead! :)

[Aerfen]

It's self evident that for all the old MIL jokes are told by male stand ups, the far more common in law tensions arise between DILs and MILs.

It's not tension if a woman says to her male partner, "look, I already do all the work to keep in touch with my own family, its up to you to organise stuff with your family" - that's balance If someone thinks that women are causing "tension" if they don't maintain their male partners relationships with his own parents for him, then there'll be tension where there needn't be any… still not the daughter in laws fault or responsibility

You've completely missed the point Adulting. The reality is there often are tensions between MILS and DILS regardless of whether they see each other often or not, regardless of whether the son makes an effort to maintain relationships or not!

It was suggested earlier that the reason families saw one set of parents more than the other was entirely down to how likable they were. I am saying that isnt the case.

Most daughters prefer their own mothers to their MILS (rare exceptions of course, and some get on with both), thus they usually naturally gravitate more towards their own families. Many (not all) sons are less good at maintaining the relationship with their own families, and that is not always the fault of their mothers for not being 'nice' enough! And while sons must always carry a big share of the blame if they make no effort for their parents, DILs can be selfish and obstructive because they actively do not wantt to spend time with the PILS, and there is only so much time in the year that can be spent with ANY parents. If for example every Sunday is lunch at her mums, then it does make it difficult for PILS to get a look in! Likewise if her parents are taken on holiday with them every summer to help look after the GCs then that is blatantly unfair!

Patriarchy is still with us, and for all progress has been made women are usually still the primary organisers of family time, and it is unfair to the DHs parents when the DIL makes no effort to get a reasonable balance, and an excuse for bad DIL behaviour to lay ALL the blame on the DH for not defending his parents need to spend time with the family too, especially when there are GCs involved.


Kristina. There has been a great deal of 'blaming' of the OP on this thread while she herself has been 'blaming' the DIL.
See my point above.

[Kr1stina]

Of course it's the woman's fault, it always is. Shes wrong if she is close to her own family , because she " prefers " them or " favours " them.

How DARE SHE love her own family! Once she marries she must adjust her own relationship with her family to make it exactly the same as her husband's with his family. If he sees his twice a year , she must only see hers that often .

Because fairness .


She's wrong if her husband and chooses to see less of his own parents, whereas he's not at fault at all, on no, it's just because he's " laid back " . Because it's HER JOB to be his social secretary and fix his family of origin, however dysfunctional it is.

Because patriarchy .

[Noodledoodledoo]

In my situation my MIL can't complain we see my mum more as she is no longer with us she has no one to compete with. However doesn't make an effort at all. Has seen her GC 5 times in 22 months. Mostly us going to them.

Refuses most offers of visits. We do keep trying but it's flipping hard work.

My dad is much easier and less expecting of anything.

[OlennasWimple]

Women are always at fault, whether MiL or DiL Adulting

[AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected]

It's self evident that for all the old MIL jokes are told by male stand ups, the far more common in law tensions arise between DILs and MILs.

It's not tension if a woman says to her male partner, "look, I already do all the work to keep in touch with my own family, its up to you to organise stuff with your family" - that's balance

If someone thinks that women are causing "tension" if they don't maintain their male partners relationships with his own parents for him, then there'll be tension where there needn't be any… still not the daughter in laws fault or responsibility

[AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected]

A DIL could see her parents 7 days a week.. she's still not the one responsible for the PILs&Sons relationship. That's between them. If an adult son isn't that bothered about his relationship with his parents and is happy to go along with seeing lots of the ILs and not them.. then there was something lacking in that relationship long before the DIL came along

[Aerfen]

"it might be convenient for his parents to blame the DIL in many of those cases"

And its equally convenient for DILs to blame the PILs or just the MIL, when the truth is its just she that actively wants to spend more time with her own parents rather than her husbands wish!

A readiness to 'blame' works two ways.

[Aerfen]

Adulting
I didnt put a proportion on it. That was you.

And no I dont think all the men who spend more time with their wife's parents are going along with their wishes because they are being 'wet' as you put it, but just because they are more laid back and don't really care, while their wives do.

It's self evident that for all the old MIL jokes are told by male stand ups, the far more common in law tensions arise between DILs and MILs.

[AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected]

Aerfen, you don't sound like you think very much of men in general, read back how you've described half the population there!

Men can and do chose to see less of their parents, it might be conveneiant for his parents to blame the DIL in many of those cases, doesn't make it true. Most men I know know their own mind and aren't as wet as the ones you describe.

[dobbythedoggy]

Dh and I live across the road from my parents. I see a lot of them with the dc and it is unusual for me not to see them for more than a couple of days. They get involved in our everyday lives. Dh tends to be on call a lot so the dc need to come with me so my mum likes to come along to help out. My dad and dh take on the odd project together and will always help each other out. They are relaxed and flexible and good at reading social cues. We tend to holiday with them and do days out because they make it easy to do so. We both have keys to each others houses and easily come and go as no one out stays their welcome and will instantly leave if it isn't a good time. Dh will often spend time alone with them and encourages me to do lots with my mum if he hears about things she'd enjoy. It is pure chance that we live so close together as a property came up with our letting agents when their former landlord gave them notice and was able to accept their pets.

On the other hand pils live about an hours worth of traveling away. Logistically it makes it much more difficult to see them. Added to the fact dh doesn't enjoy spending time with them as he constantly has to watch what his saying and gets blamed for everything we see very little of them. Dh doesn't have much time where he can travle out to see them and mil is reluctant to "bother" us when he invites her out. He hates talking to her on phone because she shows very little intrest in his life and just moans and then twists everything he says. In an ideal world he would leave dealing with his family to me but so much damage waa done by their demands when I was pregnant with dd I don't feel comfortable seeing them alone. Keeeping up contact with mil, fil is nice enough but just doesn't get involved, is the one thing we really argued about. So for a happy relationship I just leave dh to it.

Mil did visit yesterday because fil has some time off work and accepted dh's invite out. Mil talked about how little she'd seen of us all, how she missed us, how she knows how busy we are, how tired dh is from work and how I like to get the dc out and about. Then refused 3 separate times for visiting dh surrgested because she's seen us now! Dh was really hurt and took a few hours to stop muttering about being stuck with his bloody family and ask me what was so hard about just getting on with things like my lot do.

[Aerfen]

not calling the OP an asshole

Should hope not! Most parents are NOT.

just replying to the "daughters are closer to their parents" stuff

Nobody is saying ALL are, but in general its true. Most grown up daughters do remain closer to their birth families than sons do (again plenty of exceptions).

I also think men more often indulge their wives in terms of going along with their wish to involve their parents. Quite a lot of women will go on holiday with their own parents for example to have help with child care but few want to take in laws along!

[Aerfen]

Adulting
karigan is not seeing less of her parents BEACUSE her IL are great. She is seeing less of her parents because they are miserable and her kids have no fun there . As a consequence , she probably sees more of the inlaws because they have more time . But it's EFFECT Not CAUSE

I didnt say it was the cause. You misunderstand me. To rephrase a little I said she rejects her own parents to such an extent, that as a consequence the PILS have ended up being the 'favoured' ones.
That is pretty unusual for daughters especially, while sons will often, even if they dont reject their own parents, neglect them to such an extent that the PILS end up being the favoured ones.
This is why it is far far more common for paternal grandparents to feel sidelined.

On this thread alone of those women who have been critical of one set of grandparents more are criticising their PILS than their own parents.

I think its telling too that they often say 'we' including their OH , as if its a joint opinion, when I suggest their OH if asked in private might take a somewhat different view, and would admit they they see less of his parents because his partner prefers to spend time with hers.

I think the suggestions that the OP should have to spend money to win the love of the DIL, sending flowers, treating them to days out, is appalling too, even contributing to the cost her infertility treatment.
Eek!
What if she cannot afford such generosity?
What if the son and DIL are far better off financially than her?
Or what if the DILs parents, the favoured ones, are better placed to help out financially than she is?

[JessicasElephant]

I don't really understand this idea of 'fairness' when it comes to relationships. I see far more of my mum than my dad because I like her more. I see some of my siblings more than others because we get on better. Running my life trying to ensure that everyone gets a fair share of my time seems depressing, self-important and hard work. In an ideal world a couple would equally enjoy spending time with both sides of the family. But often that doesn't happen. Are they seriously expected to split their time equally even if that makes them unhappy?! Screw that for a game if soldiers. Spend time with people you like, and if you want to see more of someone then reach out.

[AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected]

In short; some people are assholes

Assholes don't exclusively have sons, just as many have daughters, and many of those daughters realise their parents are assholes once the daughter is grown up and isn't a captive audience to said assholeness and can find healthier relationships elsewhere

Whether or not an asshole's grown kids do or don't have a husband/wife nice PILs is irrelevant, if they're assholes chances are their kids'll want less to do with them

(not calling the OP an asshole, just replying to the "daughters are closer to their parents" stuff)