If you were on a first date with someone and he got into a physical fight with another bloke would you see him again?

[YouAreMySweetestDownfall]

Our first date was just a few drinks at the pub and then onto a house party after. In the early hours the party spilt out onto the street and a bloke came up to me and said within obvious earshot of my date. 'You know this guy's a loser, you could do so much better'. (clearly he was being a twat too). So my date went mad punching him and it turned into a full scale fight in the road that had to be broken up by the police!

This was years ago. I not only agreed to a second date but went onto marry him and have a child. Now finally split. What's wrong with me? I'm having therapy and thoughts like this keep cropping up. Would that always be such an obvious red flag or have you been so in love with someone from the word go you overlook these things?

[maggiethemagpie]

Violence is a sign of poor emotional control. No.

[Nofunkingworriesmate]

Be kind to yourself, What's crucial is you don't make same mistake again, what made these qualities so attractive.

[YouAreMySweetestDownfall]

Thanks everyone and yes kurri that is good advice

[justmyview]

We all make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes are based on our lack of self esteem and self confidence (I was convinced no other man would ever be interested in me and considered myself incredibly lucky to have a man who wanted to marry me - utter bollocks obviously).
Even bad experiences can be used to help us form and define our boundaries of what is acceptable, and know how to protect ourselves in future.

Very good advice there.

[bibliomania]

We all make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes are based on our lack of self esteem and self confidence (I was convinced no other man would ever be interested in me and considered myself incredibly lucky to have a man who wanted to marry me - utter bollocks obviously).
Even bad experiences can be used to help us form and define our boundaries of what is acceptable, and know how to protect ourselves in future.

This is very wise.

OP, I've spent a long time berating myself for being so stupid as to pick the man I did to marry. It's a bit of a waste of time, tbh.

Think of it like this - you've had a painful journey from the old days of not understanding to your current place of understanding. Don't criticise your younger self for not knowing what you hadn't yet learnt. Take heart from how far you've come.

[Filosofikal]

I wouldn't. Glad you have realised now.

[AppleSetsSail]

Well, this would have been a deal-breaker for me. Yes. But I have exercised some terrible judgement in the past and we live and learn.

Be as generous with forgiveness for yourself as you would be with others

[KurriKurri]

Nowadays - no, absolutely not, violence a total no-no for me.

But I recently divorce my H of many years, and from the start there were red flags that if I saw them happening to anyone else I would shout 'run a mile' yet I married him and for years made excuses for his dreadful behaviour. I was deluded.

We all make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes are based on our lack of self esteem and self confidence (I was convinced no other man would ever be interested in me and considered myself incredibly lucky to have a man who wanted to marry me - utter bollocks obviously).
Even bad experiences can be used to help us form and define our boundaries of what is acceptable, and know how to protect ourselves in future.

Congratulate and be proud of yourself for the steps you have taken now to get out of this relationship, and move on with your life - armed with your experience. There's nothing wrong with you, you are getting therapy to help you process what has happened - good for you, that's a very pro active thing to do, that proves you are a strong person - you will be OK, really you will

[stopfuckingshoutingatme]

well, you know now!
but you know-- have the therapy and FORGIVE YOURSELF. so you made an error, who doesn't? Good for you for working through it all

[DementedUnicorn]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But FWIW, no I wouldn't. Raised voices aren't acceptable to me these days and certainly not violence.

[Potplant]

Id like to think No, course I wouldn't.

But my H stood me up on our Second date, so who am I to judge?

[YouAreMySweetestDownfall]

Sorry I meant bumblebovines, although your's is probably lovely too eggpoachers

[YouAreMySweetestDownfall]

vestalvirgin you're right. The fights (against other men, never violent towards me) soon became scary and unpleasant as I grew up. I actually hate conflict of any sort.

I haven't kept great company most of my adult life and many things like this were just normal. I like the sound of eggpoachers Dp!

[VestalVirgin]

I'm not really sure why I'm posting. I think we all want to believe we are good judges of character and why would I overlook something so obvious. It seemed almost heroic at the time (fuck knows why).

Probably because back then you were the kind of person who goes to parties where it is normal that they end when the police is called. Punching someone who insults you is the expected reaction there, I'd guess.

As you observed correctly, his reaction would have seemed out of place in a posh restaurant.

It would also have seemed out of place at a different kind of party. The company you keep influences what you consider normal.

Since you now don't consider it heroic or even normal anymore, I think your chances of not repeating the mistake are pretty good.

Being a good judge of character requires some experience. Essentially, what you do is compare people to other people you know, and using your experience to predict future behaviour.
If you exist in social circles where everyone you know and like would react by punching the bloke in the face, then you think that's normal and heroic.

Dh did not retaliate at all (unlike me who was shouting and very upset). It was all very shocking and upsetting but when we talked about it later, DH said that in his experience retaliating after a one off punch like that just lead to a fight and made things worse.

Yeah ... that's the kind of man I am used to.

Whereas with someone who instigates a fight because someone else verbally insulted him, I'd be weirded out. It's just not a thing I am used to.

[eggpoacher]

People do funny things when they're trying to impress a date. I nearly ditched my now husband at our first date because he was rude to a waiter who was very slow in bringing our meal. I'm glad I saw him again, because it turned out to have been totally out of character, he was just scared that I would get bored and walk off!
YANBU to have given him a second chance, don't beat yourself up. I'm sorry it ended badly.

[VestalVirgin]

thefitfatty my guess was that most people would say hell no. It just didn't seem like a big deal at the time but now I'd run a mile too. We were early twenties and it just seemed part of his 'wild' personality, which was a big part of the attraction.

I was never attracted to violent men, so I would not have seen him again ... though I probably wouldn't have dated him in the first place. Just not my type.

(Normal reaction to the bloke who insulted him would have been to stare and be "WTF, that kind of stupid idiot actually exists?" The type of man I hang out with would have tried to defuse the situation, and afterwards done a psychological analysis of idiot bloke's reasons to behave this way.)

[sizeofalentil]

I think in that scenario I would give him a second chance - you'd all been drinking and the other guy was being aggressive by coming on to you. Assuming he felt bad and apologised.

I would have kept an eye out for any warning signs after that though.

Hindsight is always 20:20.

[cozietoesie]

There's nothing wrong with you - you've just developed and learned is all. Just tell yourself 'I was young and stupid' and then go on.

[ApocalypseSlough]

I don't know how I'd have reacted.

[jennasmith951]

Not worth it to think about the past, it is not going to change anything. Concentrate on your future and make it better!

[YouAreMySweetestDownfall]

MargaretCavendish I'm not really sure why I'm posting. I think we all want to believe we are good judges of character and why would I overlook something so obvious. It seemed almost heroic at the time (fuck knows why).

Of course I don't want to make similar mistakes (he's cost me a lot) and I honestly don't think I will. I don't want to be in any relationship for a long, long time.

[MyNewBearTotoro]

I think I would run, but like BreadSnake said sometimes when we're in a situation it's not so black and white and we put up with things on paper we never thought we would. I stayed in a sexually abusive relationship for years but didn't truly recognise it as such until I got out and had a normal relationship. Now there is no way I would stay with a partner who coerced and guilted me into feeling I need to provide sex on tap or had us do it doggy style so he didn't have to see me crying but at the time that genuinely felt normal.

I think it's a good idea to stick with the therapy but please don't blame yourself too much for not noticing or seeing this as a red flag. Many of us in our early twenties don't have much experience of relationships which means it's harder to see what is and isn't normal and what is and isn't unhealthy/ abusive/ a red flag.

[bumblingbovine49]

My Dh and I were actually approached by a drunk guy on our first date and DH was punched in the face. Absolutely totally unprovoked, we were just walking and talking to each other and hadn't even really noticed the other guy, except to see he was quite drunk and walking towards us. Luckily the drunk guy's friends came and dragged him away.

Dh did not retaliate at all (unlike me who was shouting and very upset). It was all very shocking and upsetting but when we talked about it later, DH said that in his experience retaliating after a one off punch like that just lead to a fight and made things worse.

Obviously if the instigator had continued to hit him, he would have had to defend himself, but often these standoffs are about one man showing another man who is "boss". Dh said he had no interest in this and that sometimes an initial show of "submission" will stop the attacker . I knew at once that someone who could keep his cool like that was someone I wanted to get to know more. To be fair to "men" though DH said his attitude had not always been popular with some women saw his attitude to fights as "weak". Their loss is all I can say. We have been married 10 years now and I absolutely believe my DH would never ever hurt anyone if he could possibly avoid it. I do think if I had been younger (and more addicted to drama) when we met though that I might have not had the same view.

Well done OP on seeing these things now, just learn and go forward. there is no point obsessing about the past

[MargaretCavendish]

I can't quite work out why you're asking. If you're trying to identify patterns that you want to avoid in future: great! There are women who go for the same 'type' of man over and over again with the same kind of outcome each time; if you think this could be you and are trying to break the cycle then yes, you may want to think about what you actually want from a relationship and how you can try and identify whether or not potential partners are likely to offer this (obviously there are no guarantees, though - charmers can turn horrible, initially awkward or difficult people can turn out to really grow on you. But you can certainly up your odds by looking for good signs rather than bad).

But if - as it seems to me you might be - you're trying to find extra ways to blame yourself then this achieves absolutely nothing. Even if you did manage to 'prove' that you were 'stupid' to marry him - so what? What would that change? You made a mistake, perhaps: that doesn't mean you were to blame or that you deserved the bad consequences of that.

And to answer your direct question: yes, I have overlooked what could be seen as obvious red flags, and I think many other people have to. I had a long-term relationship that began with us both cheating on our partners: you can imagine the opinions people had on that and its likelihood of success! We also used to fight (verbally, never physically) like cats and dogs. We lasted seven years and then split (for reasons, incidentally, which could not have been predicted from our inauspicious beginnings - there was no infidelity or anything like that). I very much regret cheating, and I can see in hindsight that we were never going to be together forever, but I don't regret the relationship. It helped to make me into who I am now, and it taught me many things about compromise and living with others that I think meant was able to form a very different, much calmer, much more stable relationship with my now husband.

[Itriedtodohandstandsforyou]

oops..sorry..wrong thread! [embarrassed]