To take my mother to A&E ASAP?

[Marthacliffscumbag]

I'm currently sat on a train travelling 200 miles to see my mother, I'm panicked, stressed and quite simply not sure what the hell I'm going to do when I get there.
To cut a very long story short, my mother started with back pain 6 months ago, very sudden, she's healthy, works full time, only 60. My mother hasn't been to the gp for about 15 years but she went and he gave her painkillers, they didn't work.
The pain got worse, he changed the painkillers, they didn't work. She begged for an MRI he refused, sent her for an X-ray which showed nothing. Sent her for physio, which caused her such crucifying pain he agreed it wasn't working so stopped
after 6 sessions and wrote to her gp to say it wasn't working.
Meanwhile my mother can't sleep, can't lie down, cannot eat, she is a shell of her former self.
She finally had an MRI 3 weeks ago which to everyones shock showed that she has in fact fractured her spine. Dr says it will heal but she's getting worse, she called me today completely incoherent with pain, vomiting, insensible. This is a woman who is the strongest person I know, she is now on liquid morphine, still in agony and at breaking point. That she would allow me to see her this way is testimony to how much pain she is in. I've left my children with my husband, and I'm racing to see her now. But what do I do when i get there? Will A&E just turn us away and tell us to see the gp again? I think that would break her, I feel so bloody angry and helpless, that she's been in such agony and also that she had to wait so long for the MRI, forced to do physio with a broken spine. Please give me your advice where to go now mumsnetters.

[mouldycheesefan]

Yes the op said her mother was at breakdown point and that op was rushing to see her and with the symptoms she described people were not thinking that waiting for the op to travel 200 miles was wise hence the ambulance. At that point op had not mentioned that mum was in fact a nurse. However on arrival it seems the mum luckily had made some improvement and no longer wanted to "make a fuss".

Hope she continues to recover op and that you don't need to make any more 400 mile emergency round trips, must have been very frightening for you when she originally called

[3littlefrogs]

To be fair, people were responding to the OP, which described the mother as being very distressed, vomiting and incoherent / insensible with pain.

I think anyone would suggest calling an ambulance in that situation.

[lougle]

I agree completely, Moreisnnogedag. We have people advocating a 999 call for an ambulance, for what is a (very painful) investigated, diagnosed, and treated condition. If more (or different) pain relief is needed, then the GP can either prescribe it or arrange a hospital visit to sort it out, but A&E isn't the catch all for the entire health service.

[Moreisnnogedag]

I think perhaps people need to slow down before posting.

Op I am really sorry that your mother is in pain. A lot of fractures are treated conservatively, I.e. With no operation, with painkillers to control the symptoms. It is likely that it is an osteoporotic fracture and it may be that she has had another. There are braces that provide support but they are cumbersome and a lot of people can't cope with them.

There are some rarer conditions that mimic back pain or sinister causes for back pain, but already having a normal (apart from fracture) MRI is very reassuring. If she is not willing to go to hospital (which as a competent adult she is entitled not to) I would see if she would let you call a different GP.

Having said that if she has sciatica going down both her legs, numbness around her groin/buttocks or bladder/bowel problems I'd drag her to A&E.

[Marthacliffscumbag]

I think a private consultation is what's she's going to do next.

[Marthacliffscumbag]

She has no symptoms of cauda equina, she's fine using the toilet (once she's gotten up the stairs) she's had more liquid morphine and is now sleeping. The irony of this situation is that she's a nurse, which is probably the main contributory factor in her refusing to go to A&E. She knows the drill inside and out.

[liletsthepink]

*fobbed off

[liletsthepink]

I know this may not be a popular view, but I suggest that you make a private appointment with a spinal surgeon (not a general orthopaedic doctor) via the GP. At least that way you would know exactly what the cause and treatment options for your mother's condition would be. I did this when I was being robbed off by my GP about my back condition and it's the best money I've ever spent. It saved me several months of further pain.

[Nobloodynamesleft]

We know someone who struggles with a bad back for years but the pain was getting worse and she couldn't cope. Gp gave more painkillers. One day it was so bad she rang for an ambulance. It saved her life. She had a perforated bowel and was in critical care for weeks.

Can you get her there?

[lougle]

I don't think there is any indication that the OP's mum has lost control of bladder or bowels, is there? I read 'lost control' to mean in the sense of her emotions. Cauda equina is a medical emergency, but I've read nothing from the OP to indicate that it's likely here?

I think it's all a bit hysterical now.

[mouldycheesefan]

If she didn't want a fuss she wouldn't have had you travel 200 miles. Call an ambulance let them judge. FFS.

[queenofthepirates]

When this is all calmed down and your mum is comfortable, can I suggest taking a look at the possibility of myeloma? My dad had it and the starting symptoms were a fractured back.

[LyTinWheedle]

Is your mum resting and looking after herself generally? I am in possession of a spine with two fractures through vertebra and I know that they will get worse and probably/definitely more vertebra will join them. We tend to think of these things as sudden occurrences or traumatic incidents when but as we get older more and more of us will have this happen as a consequence of old age, arthritis, osteopenia.

Unless you think her condition has worsened/another fracture has occurred what she needs is good pain relief, the best place for this is in a pain clinic with a specialist doctor in the field who will be able to help her out with different types of medicine along side opiates.

In my experience having fractures to your vertebra is indeed insanely painful, also the muscles around the torso can lock up because your body thinks that is being helpful when actually it feels like you are simultaneously having a heart attack and in the final stages of labour. Can you get your mum wrapped up in a comfortable chair/bed with a heat pack on the painful area, treat her like an invalid whether she likes it or not. If she has only recently started taking opiate/opioid pain killers they will make her feel shocking for a while, nauseous and very wooly headed. Giver her some time like this and then asses. If she's trying to get on like normal and just take the pain killers then she will be a mess, nurse her at home and if she is still in a terrible state then think about who to call.

Your poor lovely mum, it's no fun at all. Also apologies, I take an awful lot of strong pain killers and I'm not always the best at explaining things!

[51yearsandcounting]

This is literally an emergency, emergency (I am informed by the medic behind me reading this thread) if it is cauda equina, which can be caused by spinal fractures.

[51yearsandcounting]

Please take it very seriously if your mother has lost control of her bowels and bladder, or if there is saddle numbness. This can be cauda equina and is curable only if treated very promptly otherwise damage is permanent - 999 now for ambulance if this is the case. Good luck - I hope it's all fine and you meant your mum lost emotional control.

[WhyCantIuseTheNameIWant]

Ok, she doesn't think she is bad enough for A&E.
Can you take her to minor injuries, as that will just be a different doctor.
Or any other name for the walk(push) in dept at a hospital...
Hope you can convince her to go somewhere.
Good luck

[AnthonyPandy]

she called me today completely incoherent with pain, vomiting, insensible. Tell her it's too late to not want to make a fuss. She already made a fuss, due to being incoherent with pain. You have now travelled 200 miles, taking however long on a train, costing who knows how much and if she refuses to have any medical treatment today then she is causing a fuss for no good reason. The least she can do after all that is go to the hospital. Does she want you to go home still with no idea what is wrong with her?

[ItsLikeRainOnYourWeddingDay]

To be honest if she is more concerned about making a fuss then she isn't as bad as you think she is. If she truly was at breaking point with pain she would be begging for relief.

[Imnotaslimjim]

I would consider calling an ambulance against her will if you feel she needs immediate attention.

Now that you are there do you think she can wait the 2 weeks for the scan or does she need seeing sooner?

[Wotshudwehave4T]

I agree, get the paramedics to her, review and decide if they feel it's safe for her to refuse to go or possibly given the pain, get her on a spinal board and off for whatever speed of treatment they determine she should have from their assessment of her

[LifeInJeneral]

Can you call 111 OP? They are a good service for giving you an idea of whether you need to go to a&e or not.

[PerspicaciaTick]

Tel her... Either she goes while you are with her, so you can sort out drinks and food for her, pack her bag etc. and generally minimise the fuss. Or she waits until next time, when she may be on her own and it will be a really, mahoosively fussy emergency.

[3littlefrogs]

Your mum is only 60. She is the same age as me.
She needs medical attention, investigation and treatment. This cannot go on. It has been 6 months - clearly there is more to this. You are not in a position to keep travelling back and forth, so, having got there, you need to take control today.

She probably doesn't want a fuss because she is frightened.

[FreshsatsumaforDd]

My mother had spinal stenosis, bony narrowing of the spinal canal pressing on the spinal cord. Took ages for correct diagnosis and needed surgery. She was taking such strong painkillers that only a weeks supply would be prescribed at a time, but still it barely touched the level of pain. She lost several stones in weight too.

The level of pain that your mother is suffering could indicate pressure on the spinal column itself. Could there have been any slight movement of the fracture or swelling causing pressure. Spineal surgery is major and traumatic, but my mother is now pain free. Good luck op and to your mother.

[NicknameUsed]

I think, in this case, you have to over-rule her wishes to not make a fuss. She needs medical attention as this isn't going to go away on its own.