AIBU to admire Maria Sharapova

[Bolograph]

So was brave enough to become a champion tennis player while being so ill that she had to take 30 different drugs for her health, having to choose those drugs carefully so that she could protect her health without (of course!) gaining a competitive advantage.

She leant enough medicine to be able to, without any help at all, select the three of those drugs most important to her health, and was able to manage her supply of those vital health-giving drugs without telling anyone. Obviously, sometimes she got confused and forgot on the odd dozen occasions to write these drugs down on the forms she had to fill in, but then, can you imagine having been so ill you have to take thirty different drugs and then had to cut down to just three? It must have been so hard for her.

I mean, these drugs were so important to her health (that's her health) that she couldn't safely play tennis without risking her health. Her doctor told her that, for her health, she had to take

“Mildronate 1-2 X 10, repeat in 2 wks (before training or competition)”

“1 hr before competition, 2 pills of Mildronate”

“During games of special importance, you can increase your Mildronate dose to 3-4 pills (1 hr before the match). However, it is necessary to consult me on all these matters (please call)”

“30 minutes prior to a training session: Mildronat – 1 Capsule. 30-45 minutes prior to a tournament Mildronat 2 capsules”.

Imagine the worry! Before matches of special importance she had to take these special drugs, because otherwise she would literally die. Imagine how much a champion she would have been had she been born without this sad catalogue of medical conditions which required such complex treatment, especially just before matches of "special importance".

I think it's terrible that this brave woman, who managed her complex and difficult medical conditions (particularly those that might have killed her during matches of "special importance") all on her own, helped only by a mail order supply of performance boosting Latvian medicine and 29 other drugs. We should salute her, and help her win her appeal against the unjust ITF.

Alternatively, if you want a laugh, read the actual report:

www.itftennis.com/media/231178/231178.pdf

[airedailleurs]

better jaded than deluded ; sadly the vast majority of professional sport is riddled with drug abuse.

[needastrongone]

You don't know it is true, Antique. Although, it seems very important to Bolo that this is the case. I give it, 30 minutes, maybe an hour before she replies...

[AntiqueSinger]

This makes me sad. As an Asthmatic who takes inhaled steroids and still gets wheezy within a minute of jogging, but perseveres anyway, I had always looked up to those Athletes who speak about how they overcame asthma to run/cycle/swim. Especially Radcliffe. I would actually think of her when running out of puff or just thinking of giving up "look how long she can run, I can run a little bit longer" etc. Now I think maybe she's had extra help. Blood transfusions? Special 'medicines' stronger ingested steroids? I am thoroughly jaded if any of it is even partially true

[Bolograph]

Nobody knows. Radcliffe is one of the lead signatories to another of those "drugz iz badz" letters, according to this morning's Guardian.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jun/13/british-athletes-letter-world-anti-doping-agency-drug-cheats

But then, Armstrong was vocal on a regular basis about the evils of doping and how opposed he was to it. Radcliffe's distaste for people who are banned for doping violations is extremely selective:

www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/nov/25/athletics.news

So when it's a British athlete banned for ludicrous excuses for missing three successive doping controls, Radcliffe is all forgiveness and understanding, while when it's perfidious foreigners it's all lifetime bans and sweeping condemnation.

[airedailleurs]

I have three words to say about Paula Radcliffe and her world record: Autologous Blood Transfusions...ever wondered why she never came close to that time again? She was told to stop the transfusions as her testing results were becoming suspicious...just a theory, what do I know

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Poli no, it's hardly the same thing.

Regardless of the doping he won seven times in a competition where you can be sure every single competitor is also doing so. Nobody could get near him. It is still an impressive feat of physical performance.

[Bolograph]

for how long has Radcliffe's record stood, and what is the next fastest time? It was an exceptional performance.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The long-standing records, particularly ones that marked a sharp change from the previous record and which appear to be way outside the season/competition bests, are the most suspicious. The very things you appear to think are signs of Radcliffe's virtue also look the most suspicious. The same is true of, say, times up Alpe D'Huez: no-one has got near the times Armstrong, Pantani, Rjis and others managed, because even if one might conjecture the Tour de France is not an advert for clean sport, it isn't doping industrially and carelessly, with the active connivance of the organisers, as was happening back in the day. Here's the top 39 times up the Alpe, annotated with doping histories:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpe_d%27Huez#Fastest_ascents

The fastest is Pantani at 37'25". The fastest by anyone who isn't a proven doper is Quintana at 39'22 or 39'50", and he is a very specialised climber who is never going to win a grand tour (nor would ever claim to be able to). The fastest by a general cyclist who won or might be in contention for a grand tour, and isn't a proven or widely suspected doper, would be Cadel Evans at 41'46". The fastest by someone about whom there is no possible hint of scandal is LeMond, one of the greatest cyclists of all time, at 48' dead. That's more than ten minutes, or more than 25%, slower than Pantani's drug-assisted ascent.

More starkly, look at the women's 400m records.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_400_metres_world_record_progression

Which of those do you fancy betting on as being clean? The record has stood since 1985, at 47.60. Let's look at the best runs of all time:

www.alltime-athletics.com/w_400ok.htm

Note that nine of the top ten are east German and other SovBloc athletes running in the mid-1980s. The exception is Marie-José Pérec who might have been clean, but no-one has got near even her time in recent years. The fastest time this decade is more than 1.5s off the world record.

Radcliffe has 4 of the best 6 times in history:

www.alltime-athletics.com/wmaraok.htm

The only person who has got remotely close to her was a massive doper:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liliya_Shobukhova

Only Radcliffe knows whether her records are sound.

[needastrongone]

I agree, both would be a sad day indeed, especially Bolt, given what he stands for, although I love Paula (I was a marathon runner myself for a long time). As it stands, they are not guilty, whatever level of scepticism there may be.

And I can understand how pissed off Paula was last year

[SukeyTakeItOffAgain]

The next fastest time is....Radcliffe's.

I would hate, hate to think that Paula had cheated. It would be the saddest day in athletics, as sad as if Bolt was found guilty.

But not wanting them to be guilty isn't the same as them not being guilty.

[needastrongone]

The mens marathon time continues to change pretty regularly, for how long has Radcliffe's record stood, and what is the next fastest time? It was an exceptional performance.

I'm fairly sure WADA's independent commission have backed her assertions of innocence.

As you say Sukey, only the individual knows if they have cheated at the end of the day. However sceptical folk are.

[Bolograph]

Kenyan doping controls are a farce. All Kenyan athletes can be assumed to be doping: 40 failed tests in the last few years, with the testing chaotic and sparse. If Kenya had effective controls that number would be many times higher. On current showing it will be excluded from Rio.

[SukeyTakeItOffAgain]

The mens records gets seconds shaved off it, she shaved minutes, minutes from the time.


I don't know Radcliffe wasn't cheating for sure - no one knows it except her. However that statement doesn't make much sense in that men's marathon history goes back so much further. The first woman only competed in a marathon in 1966, and even then it was against the rules.

[SukeyTakeItOffAgain]

Nor are the Kenyan runners

I don't know exactly, but hasn't there been an investigation into Kenyan athletics?

I agree 100% that if it had been Serena or Venus, they would have been crucified.

[Bolograph]

So, because Armstrong was cheating, that makes Bolt a cheat too...? And Flo-Jo was cheating that means Radcliffe was too? I don't get the correlation.

Because their defence is to point to all the tests they've taken. But those are tests which have a low rate of success: Armstrong was never caught. Russia managed to fake the testing for a decade until a whistleblower shouted: what makes you so sure that the UK testing regime is any less corrupt than the Russian? The testing regime is not convincing.

Radcliffe holds a record no-one else can get near. Other such records are clearly drug assisted. She might be clean. But the most parsimonious explanation is an endurance athlete whose sport requires massive VO2max who has been tested about as effectively as Armstrong was, and like Armstrong has never failed a test, which proves absolutely nothing.

Do you have concrete, specific evidence that you can provide that Bolt or Radcliffe use banned drugs

That's straight out of the Armstrong playbook. I don't particularly care whether they're doping, as I have nothing invested in the sport, and they don't care what I think (I used to care about cycling, but don't take it any more seriously than WWF wrestling these days). But the sport is rotten top to bottom, and simply shouting "show me the concrete evidence" only convinces the fan club. We're past the "innocent until guilty" stage.

Radcliffe always wanted to point to blood profiles, but when her blood profile was finally released, it was hardly exculpatory:

sportsscientists.com/2015/09/paula-radcliffe-off-scores-and-transparency/

It could all be a terrible misunderstanding. Whatever.

Bolt trains in a drug-using camp, with drug-using training partners, whose coach has coached at least five banned drug users, who is about to be stripped of one of his gold medals because his relay partner tested positive. Maybe it's all a horrible coincidence, too.

[needastrongone]

Yep, the list definitely shows all tennis players there Bolograph...Djokovic is pretty dominant, he must doping then...

So, because Armstrong was cheating, that makes Bolt a cheat too...? And Flo-Jo was cheating that means Radcliffe was too? I don't get the correlation.

Do you have concrete, specific evidence that you can provide that Bolt or Radcliffe use banned drugs to enhance their performance then?

Because if you do, then that's great and it would be brill if you shared it. If not, then quoting all the examples in the world doesn't prove someone a cheat.

I am not suggesting that sport in general doesn't have an issue with drug abuse, but I do think it's dangerous to insinuate, with no clear, documented evidence, that specific individuals dope when you cannot prove that they do.

It's not enough to say 'oh come on, they are all at it', I don't think that would stand up as evidence.

[Bolograph]

Do we think all tennis players are at it then?

tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/p/doping-cases.html

[Cutecat78]

Do we think all tennis players are at it then?

[Bolograph]

I can't understand why you're impressed by Lance Armstrong winning by cheating.

He had to work hard, and the cancer was real even if a cynic might point out that testicular cancer is a suspected risk of testosterone use. Similarly, far worse drug users, such as Pantani (who it's now clear had used far larger amounts of drugs from an early age) were also talented and hard working. The whole sport was corrupt, and to blame young athletes for doing as they were told by their trainers (no-one sane blames East German athletes for taking "vitamins", and it's horrific the health price they paid) is somewhat missing the point. Armstrong became a monster later, but in the end he was a half-bright bloke with big lungs; he couldn't do it all on his own. Morally culpable? In the end, yes. Solely responsible? Not in a million years.

This is systemic failure of sports, for whom an endless stream of "the greatest ever" keeps the punters coming in. The Golden Mile and so on: they wanted the records broken annually, and that's hard. In women's sport there was some margin until the 1970s: the typical elite female athlete of the 60s was an amateur, as men had been in the 1950s (after all, Bannister broke the 4m mile as a student, without exotic training). From then on, all the obvious incremental improvements in equipment and training had been taken, and running records were asymptotic to some theoretical minimum that was approached in smaller and less frequent intervals. The same's true, mutatis mutandis, in most sports: what's different now to ten years ago that makes you think records will continue to be broken?

[Polidori]

Alis I can't understand why you're impressed by Lance Armstrong winning by cheating. If someone won a backgammon tournament with loaded dice would you be equally impressed?

[Lullabellesmell]

Her "illness" questionable at best - looks like a pushy sports dad tying to get best performance.

That said I couldn't compete at a ridiculously low level of a sport due to medication I had to take for asthma. I was 14 at the time and gutted :(

[Alisvolatpropiis]

I strongly suspect they're all at it. Every single one, to greater or lesser extents. The fact remains they're almost certainly still exceptional in their respective fields though. I mean, what cyclist in the Tour de France doesn't dope?! So whilst Lance was caught and is now a cheat blah blah blah...winning the contest 7 times remains pretty impressive, imo.

However erm op, 1988 was 28 years ago, I am not 30

[Bolograph]

So, the fastest man on the planet is clearly just an unidentified cheat, despite having been tested more than any other athlete.

Yeah. Like the seven-times Tour de France "champion". He was tested a lot, too. Are you telling me it's all a misunderstanding, and we can go back to praising him for his brave recovery from cancer?

whose world record at the marathon distance is so far out of sight of any other marathon runner since?

Including, inter alia, Liliya Shobukhova, who absolutely was a drug user.

Women's 100m record: Florence Griffith Joyner in 1988.
Women's 200m record: Florence Griffith Joyner in 1988.

No-one has got near them since. Want to tell us she was clean? She's oddly dead, so it's a bit tricky. Strange no-one has got close to them in nearly 30 years, isn't it? 1988? The men's 100m race was the dirtiest ever, with the whole podium failing drug tests and the rest of the field looking grim, so why would the women's race be any better?

Women's 400m record: Marita Koch of East Germany in 1985.
Women's 800m record: Jarmila Kratochvílová of Czechoslovakia in 1983.

And on, and on, and on. It's even more stark in field events: only two world records have been broken this century, and every single record is held by a former Soviet Bloc athlete. If Radcliffe's record is clean, it could easily be the only one in the entire women's record book. Florence Kiplagat has broken a lot of road records, but the Kenyan doping control in- and out-of-competition is non-existent, so it's very hard to have any confidence.

Steroids don't enhance performance of themselves. They enable you to train harder and more frequently, as they improve recovery and increase training effect. Someone who takes steroids trains hard: trains very hard, in fact, because they can, whereas someone not taking drugs will break down.

Almost everyone Bolt has ever trained with has failed doping controls. It's possible he's a unique talent, of course. But it's odd that he's able to beat an entire field of dopers.

Still, he's been tested a lot. Lance is on the phone: can he have his yellow jerseys back?

[needastrongone]

Agree about Sharapova though

[needastrongone]

So, the fastest man on the planet is clearly just an unidentified cheat, despite having been tested more than any other athlete.[sceptical]

Would the same go for Paula Radcliffe, whose world record at the marathon distance is so far out of sight of any other marathon runner since? The mens records gets seconds shaved off it, she shaved minutes, minutes from the time.

Or Mo Farah, who turned himself from fairly mediocre within the context of elite competition to double olympic and world champion. Look at his training regime before and after...

Or possibly Radcliffe and Bolt are simply exceptional athletes. This does happen. Radcliffe pretty much broke herself producing that period of running in her career.

So, if there is specific evidence that Bolt is cheating, I think it's dangerous to suggest he is...

[ArgyMargy]

I think she should get a lifetime ban simply so that we are spared her deafness-inducing shrieks every time she hits the ball. However it seems likely she will only get 2 years.