to let this friendship drift

[Hotpointdishwasher]

Friend of a good twenty years standing, lived together at college, godparents to each other's children etc. I moved away and settled here with DH and the kids, she stayed put. I'm thinking if letting things drift because she is such a flake. It makes me so sad. She's visited here twice, each time it's started as "I'll come and give you a hand." First time I'd just had twins and also had two older ones, and was glad of the help, but then at the last minute she decided she couldn't face the drive alone, and brought her husband and her own two kids. They are all delightful but I was in absolutely no shape for hosting a family visit! Her husband got the picture very quickly and they retreated home but it left me feeling like I had let them down somehow whereas actually she had changed what was arranged.

The second time was for a family party of ours. The invitations included lists of hotels and b&bs, we are very well catered for as there are several tourist attractions nearby. They booked one 10 miles away, got there by train and DH had to go and pick them up. I don't know why they didn't pick a local one, but they said this was £20 cheaper, which they then spent getting a taxi back!

Anyway since then there have been several meet ups planned. My childcare arrangements are complex, I need notice to get out. She's given me dates twice and cancelled twice in the last year, both times I had booked childcare.

The final straw has been yet another planned meet up, but then as usual she tries to change the plan. So what started as her getting the train to the big city nearby, my meeting her and bringing her home here, was changed by a) a week, so out if half term meaning I'm restricted by the school run whereas at half term I can book KidsClub and
B) she wants to drive down with her husband and kids, who are now young teens, and they'll go for a walk whilst she comes to see me. Oh and they'll call and see some relatives who live nearby. (For nearby, read 90 mins drive.)

I can't decide if she just has no idea of geography, or time/distance, or is a massive flake.

WWYD?

[IamtheDevilsAvocado]

Yes I've had a couple of much-loved pals who have behaved like this... Well for years... I confronted both of them where I had plans massively changed at last minute /cancelled /massively late..., with very different outcomes... Pal number 1 was aggressive and unpleasant saying that's how I always am with everyone, I don't want to be 'tied to any arrangement', bloody irritating as she would often instigate our plans and then bale in some way at the eleventh hour... Regardless of how effing inconvenient it was to anyone else... Pal no 2...was genuinely upset... Apologised profusely, as she just hadn't seen how difficult her behaviour was, she was never on the receiving end!
She was a past master of saying; 'hey let's have a girly catch- up in the local cocktail bar' , I'd arrive to collect her, to discover we were suddenly staying in with her pleasant but nothing in common with me, partner... A couple of her son's pals who were hanging around to go out clubbing at midnight, and a older neighbour who had dropped in to say thanks for watering her plants... 3hours later I felt I was in 7th circle of hell making small talk with people I was hardly likely to see again... Things massively improved after... She just hadn't realised how tiresome I found these chaotic meetings

[Littlecaf]

I've got a friend who does this OP, so can sympathise! I'd let the relationship slide - she can make the arrangements from now on!

It's sad but I just don't have time for it anymore.

[INeedAnotherCoffee]

Oh god, this sounds like I used to be. I know that sometimes I could seem flaky and unreliable, and I'm anything but. What EverySongbird said resonates with me. My DH for many years was pretty controlling and made it very difficult for me to get out (especially if further travel was involved) to socialise with friends. He wouldn't forbid me from going or anything cause he knew i'd have told him to fuck off but passively-aggressively would do nothing to hep with the DC /suddenly have a social occasion of his own / run late at work / pick a fight so I'd be in tears / keep the money a bit tight so that I would be massively stressed trying to stick to my plans and get there on time/at all, and would end up quite regularly cancelling quite last-minute as I couldn't cope and by then was in no fit state to leave the house anyway.

Took me a wee while (in my defence was for years either pregnant/with tiny kids and ALWAYS exhausted too) to figure out what he was up to. For this sort of thing and many other issues we've been in counselling for a year and am happy to say that things are so very much better now. Anyway, point is you never know what's going on in someone's life.

I lost a couple of (what I thought were good) friends over this - I tried to tell them about my H but they wouldn't believe me - they said it was because once I was married and moved to a better part of town and had my DS that I didn't care about them any more. That felt awful. Because - everyone LOVES him. He's wreathed in smiles and his good-guy do anything for anyone persona everywhere we go. We were having hell behind closed doors. No-one believed me (including his family) apart from my DM and one very very good friend. Think they all thought I wore the trousers too as he seemed so mild-mannered and easygoing.

Please don't assume that all is ok because all seems ok. She could have some stuff going on at home. Just FWIW. The hotel further away and the friends 90-minutes away, and bringing the family to wait for you do ring alarm bells for me, tbh. My H did this sort of thing to control my actions - wifie can only spend so long having fun drinking wine and having a better time than with you with a friend if have to then travel for accommodation / are committed somewhere far away shortly afterwards. He was very insecure and did it to keep me close in case I found greener grass, I think.

I wouldn't give up on her. I liked the PP's idea of taking plans with a pinch of salt until you see how they change and be ready for them not to come off at all, or continue just seeing her in your home town - and maybe subtly letting her know in some way that if there IS a problem, you're there for her. If this is just how she is then you can work with it. Just be open and tell her when changed plans don't work for you.

[MargotLovedTom]

Yes, being very, very blunt is possibly the only way through it.

I do sympathise; I also have an unreliable, flaky friend but she's not half as bad as yours.

[stopfightingandtidyupthismess]

One of my friends did something like this to me. We've known each other since university and she was my bridesmaid and is godmother to my ds1. We used to see each other almost every holiday. Then after a couple of years whenever we arranged to meet up, if she was coming to us, she would be increasingly late to arrive and leave earlier. If we went over there (which despite me having a pair of toddlers by then and her being child-free, seemed easier and at least happened more often) she would sometimes say she was ill in order to cancel. Sometimes this was true but photos on FB would occasionally prove she either had a better offer or had recovered very fast. I should have called her up on it back then. Then a few years after ds3 arrived, every single meet up I suggested (going to hers, her coming here, meeting somewhere in between us, anything she wanted to do!) she would be ill for or had double booked knowing I'd just put up with it and let her cancel on me (because I knew she would be grumpy if I had "forced" her into anything - she had form for that at uni). And she couldn't possibly rearrange for us to get together the following week as she would be busy. She would say "we'll arrange something for next half term instead" and then be too busy then too. After the last visit (us to her and going to a place I couldn't afford because she wanted to go out with her sister and her sisters child as well) I haven't seen her for three years now after giving up trying to get together and accommodate her. I miss her but it's just too painful being let down constantly.

[Hotpointdishwasher]

Yes, Pimms, I'm going to have to be very very direct. I thought I had been, but not enough.

[Hotpointdishwasher]

Margot, no, the plans always change. Usually I don't mind this as a general rule, I'm quite flexible, but when I've booked childcare and inconvenienced other people then it drives me mad.

Furiousfate, yes, I feel like an afterthought, an option.

[Hotpointdishwasher]

Sorry that was cross posted with Ketisha

[MargotLovedTom]

So when do you actually get together to be close and talk in code and all the rest of it?!
It sounds like she constantly lets you down. Are there actually any times when plans actually go ahead completely as intended?

[Hotpointdishwasher]

Yes! The assumption that if she likes everyone there then they will all like each other!

A few years ago I was staying there and she said that some friends if theirs were coming for dinner that night too. The man of the couple wasn't my cup of tea at all, hugely condescending. We were mostly talking about business and the tone he took with me was really confusing. Then I realised that he had a job vacancy and thought I was interested in it and was essentially interviewing me! I had no idea thus was the set up, I have a job, I don't want another and would rather be dead than work for him! But it seems that she thinks he's great, thinks I'm great and we could be great together! That was rather like being ambushed! She had a lovely night though!

[Pimmmms]

Make arrangements, amd say very clearly, STOP PISSING ABOUT WITH THE ARRANGEMENTS. I'm organising childcare so that i can have a nice night out with you, and neither of us are to have husbands or kids in tow. Once my childcare is sorted its a huge hassle to change, so lets stick with the dates and times we've arranged.

She doesn't sound malicious, just a flaky people pleaser, always wantng to say yes to eveyone around her and the one physically closest to her at the time will get her priority. And stop letting HER make the arrangements, she's clearly rubbish at it.

If she knows you'll pull her up on it each and every time she will either start to behave or pull back from the friendship herself.

[FuriousFate]

I'm going to go against the grain after your last update. She treats you as an afterthought. I'd be livid if I'd organized childcare and then she'd repeatedly cancelled. She's not a good friend to you at all. She may have been in the past but she isn't today. Work on your self esteem - friends don't treat people as she is treating you.

[Katisha]

I have a friend who does this - never happier than when she's got loads of her friends and family all together, assuming they all want to BE together even if they barely know each other or dont know each other at all. I've stopped visiting now as she lives two hours away and last time we got there to find she'd also booked in her sister and family for the weekend and we were all expected to be one big happy gang. I wanted to see HER and catch up. Then she was in London where I work and said she'd meet me for lunch but then decided she had to bring her colleague as well. Actually I turned that one down. Im sure the colleague wanted lunch with me as much as I wanted lunch with her. Just two examples of a lifelong trend.

[Hotpointdishwasher]

Sharonbotts, yes yes! It's strangely reassuring to think there's more than her out there, doing this!

That's just reminded me; last year she was on a course in a nearby big city. She said she would be finished by 5, and was staying over so did I fancy coming over. So I said yes, my mum took the afternoon off work to help with the kids and I got ready. I was about to leave for the train when she texted to say the course had ran over and she wouldn't be free till 6:30. That was ok, it takes time to get into town, so I asked where we would meet. Heard nothing, so I cancelled my cab to the station and got another text saying she would be free by 7:30 but would it be ok if her two colleagues came. I said if she was Defo going to be free then I'd come into town and yes, why not, we'll go for a drink. (All this time my mum is sitting there looking at me wondering if I'm going or not.) Then finally another text saying she didn't know when they would finish, it would probably be quite late, and she was going to get something local to the course and would see me the next time she was down.
infuriating.

[SharonBottsPoundOfGrapes]

This is my sister. She lives in Oz but is home at the moment. She means the world to me, the kids love her and she is tremendous fun but thinks nothing of wiggling out of plans if something better comes along. Now I don't tell the kids or believe her when she says she's doing this, that or the other. If she turns up then it's a bonus. She once promised to come and stay for the weekend. Then she could only do one night. Then just for dinner. Then she could only nip in for a moment as she was going somewhere. Then she couldn't make it at all. When I pulled her up on it she accused me of making no effort to see her. So I said fine where are you now I'll meet you but it wasn't convenient. Said I'd meet her the next day? No good. The day after that? And so on. When I finally did see her I told her how hurtful it was and how it made me feel very insignificant to her. Our parents got divorced when she was a teen at school. My house became a refuge from the fighting. She'd stay for days on end and go to school and then come back. I guess I've become someone she can rely on but she hasn't for me.

[Hotpointdishwasher]

Summerrainbow, she offers and then changes the plans...

[Hotpointdishwasher]

testingtesting "I have a friend who's a chronic overbooker and will combine friends who don't know each other or turn up for half an hour and then disappear."

This is her, to a t.

[TestingTestingWonTooFree]

It's annoying that she doesn't appear to have much insight into what she wants/can do. If she suggested a short visit with children and husbands, I'm guessing that would be fine (as long as it was convenient), it's just disappointing when you're expecting something better. I have a friend who's a chronic overbooker and will combine friends who don't know each other or turn up for half an hour and then disappear. I'm pleased to see her for the time she comes but I don't rely on her for anything.

[summerainbow]

My feeling here is that she does one does not give famliy time to help you . Why would a mother 2 do that in half give up time with her kids to help you .
You also want to go out on the pics with her. Maybe she does not want to do it .any more .
You need to find other local friends to go on the pics with and help you out with kids .

[HopelesslydevotedtoGu]

I think this is her personality rather than any underlying issue- she is someone who is spontaneous, disorganised, prefers to go with the flow, likes linking social arrangements.

As you have such a long close friendship I would continue seeing her in a way that doesn't inconvenience you so much. The alternative is to end the friendship; I can't see trying to change her being successful as these are deep seated habits.

I would start viewing any arrangements you make with her as unfixed. Make low key arrangements that fit in with your existing schedule so you don't book childcare etc and aren't too inconvenienced when the plans inevitably change.

When your kids are older and independent this will probably be less annoying.

I have known similar people but as this behaviour would drive me loopy I haven't pursued a friendship with any of them!

[Kallyno]

There could be a few reasons behind all this: (a) she's not that in to you (b) she is a real genuine flake and that doesn't change just because it is harder for you to accomodate her flakiness (c) she has some health/ wellness issues getting in the way of keeping to arrangements she has made (d) she has controlling husband issues (e) she doesn't really like the sort of arrangements you make together - perhaps she no longer wants to do girls' night on the piss sort of thing.

The first option would be the only reason for letting the friendship drift, imo. You've been friends for years and while right now your needs mean it is hard to handle how she is, in another ten years you'll be in a totally different space. As someone who has emigrated and ultimately lost all her long term friends, believe me when I say you should take the long perspective on this friendship and treasure it. When you are sharing the grandparenting years together this small period when her friendship was more cost than gain to you will be easily overlooked.

Lastly, be mindful of the impact of your husband's reaction to your frustration with the situation because it is likely to exacerbate your feelings.

[NoMudNoLotus]

Blinkowl I think that is a very compassionate and wise approach.

[blinkowl]

I have a friend who is enormously flaky.

When I make plans with her, I assume they probably won't happen, and it's a bonus when they do.

I don't know why she drops out last minute all the time, but she does it to everyone, and I suspect there is some kind of anxiety issue going on.

We have a lot of shared history and I am very fond of her, so I have changed my expectations so I don't get disappointed. I would be sad to lose her friendship completely over her social issues which are her problem and not a deliberate insult to me.

[LizKeen]

It could be a million reasons.

At the end of the day you know her and the dynamic. Its about weighing up what is worse. Putting up with her flakeyness or losing a life long friend.

I have been in a similar position. In the end I decided I loved her too much to let the friendship go. But she still drives me insane at times.

How do you think she would respond to you being more blunt about things?

[Hotpointdishwasher]

Possibly, but I lived with them for almost a year and never saw any sign of this whatsoever.