to ask a dog owner to put their dog on a lead?

[pinkfluffybunny]

We were at the beach today, not a packed beach, but a lot of families and children around. My DC are very wary of dogs, and began to panic a little when a huge pit bull terrier kind of dog (I couldn't tell if it was a pure breed, although looked like it) was running towards us, off the lead. I ask the elderly gentleman to put the dog on its lead until they were away from all the children, which he did immediately without hesitation, and was pleasant about it. My DC were then fine.
Afterwards my DH said I shouldn't have asked the man to put the dog on the lead, as he probably walks the dog everyday on the beach, and that's 'his place' to go!! I was shocked with him, especially as he knows how our DC react, and because of the type of dog it is.
AIBU to ask the dog owner to put the lead on?

[mommybunny]

I'm with you OP (YANBU), but my DH would be with your DH. We have a German Shepherd who in DH's eyes can never do any wrong. He just doesn't get that some people do have a fear of dogs and the more you try to force them to "deal" with it the more uncomfortable they get and the more entrenched the fear gets.

I never take my dog off the lead when he's just with me, and it drives me insane when I see people in the woods just grinning stupidly at me with leads around their necks as their yippers come up to mine and the growling and pulling starts. I mustn't say what I feel like doing with those leads.

If your DCs do have that kind of fear, however, it might be worth trying to get that resolved. You and they can't avoid animals all their lives, and (if the comments here are anything to go by) you can't always rely on responsible dog owners to leash their dogs when they're in proximity to your DCs.

[t4gnut]

You asked politely and he responded politely -all very reasonable.

You do need to do something about kids scared of dogs though - have nieces/nephews who used to run away squealing when they saw a dog (and one cats too) - utterly ridiculous behaviour, and the message the dog gets from that is likely to be chase/play or at worse deep rooted down that's prey behaviour.

[EveryoneElsie]

We've lived with animals for tens of thousands of years. Its not reasonable to expect public spaces to be animal free.
Its reasonable to expect dog owners to train, control and clean up after their dogs.

[MindTheCrevasse]

I think big dogs should always be on a lead in public, unless they are so well trained they walk to heel.

It's selfish and arrogant to let your dog run around freely on a beach and approach people. No-one else knows his temperament. Many people are nervous of dogs, many more have phobias. You're spoiling the beach for others.

There's no need for a dog to be off-lead in public at all.

[Lilacpink40]

I'd never let my DCs run and jump at people, saying "they're just being friendly". I'd never say to people you really should have children, they really enrich your life. Some people like children, some people don't, same for dogs. The dog caused anxiety and the owner appreciated this and put it on a lead. I like dogs, and sounds like OP doesn't mind them, but I don't like suggestions that people really should like them and not be bothered about running dogs around small children. Everyone's different and dogs can hurt people!

[Rhubardandcustard]

Don't mind people asking and I will put them on load if people ask, but I always keep my dog near to me with treats when little children are around as you don't know who is nervous.
My dog isn't overly happy with strangers approaching her and looks at me as if to say mum help, so sometimes I ask people not to approach my dog, works both ways. Just last week a toddler run up to my dog, his mum just let him, I said to him, so his mum could hear, you should always ask your mum or the dogs owner first as some dogs don't like being touched.

[RestlessTraveller]

If I was on a beach that was clearly marked as allowing dogs and my dog wasn't showing any interest in your children I wouldn't put him on the lead despite you asking. I would call him over, and yes he would come and stay with me until we had passed you.

[ChardonnayKnickertonSmythe]

Sorry, I read OP's posts, don't you've mention what kind of beach it was.
Some allow dogs off the lead, others don't.

So YABU if it was the first, and YANBU if the latter.

[fatandold]

OP, there is a lot in your reply to me that I take issue with, but specifically

"I do not give any signals that I am nervous or scared - I'm not, however, as I've mentioned, this dog was huge and intimidating, which is why I immediately asked him to put it on the lead. (I would do the same if it was a tiny little yapping dog)"

From what else you say, I don't think this is the case. Your fears are totally being picked up by your children. I'm confused how you think otherwise. I'm not meaning to be preachy, cos God knows nobody has the right to really judge others, definitely not me, but if your children are brought up with this fear, and nothing is done to overcome it, you are setting them up for potentially difficult situations in future, maybe even more dangerous ones. IDK, crossing a busy road to avoid a dog and getting hit by a car etc. God forbid.

Anyway, I do hope you can find a friend or neighbour with a nonthreatening dog to introduce to DC s and get to know, maybe step by step. Or even get a little puppy yourself. A dog adds so much to a family, I cannot explain.

Sorry if this sounds patronising but I hope you all can overcome this and grow to love dogs (or at least tolerate and put the risk of attack into perspective). Your kids will richly rewarded one day with that human/canine relationship.

I realise I sound like a ranty judgy dog lover. Sorry about that. might be influenced by my own bouncy puppy or the wonderful staffies i have had in the past

[Hidingtonothing]

I have 2 bull breeds, they're both friendly, great with kids and love meeting new people. They only get let off lead when there's no one else around, we're watching for other people approaching all the time and they get put straight back on as soon as we see anyone, they come back first call. We don't do this because they pose any risk but we are aware that some people are scared of/don't like dogs and that others have as much right to use public spaces without being bothered as we do. It's lovely for dogs to have off lead time but I can't understand why anyone would have an issue with dogs being put back on lead when other people are around, it's for everyone's safety, including the dogs. I hate the stigma my dogs and others like them suffer just because they're a particular breed/type but I understand why some people are afraid and I would rather have the peace of mind that my dogs are on lead and under control and that no one can make unwarranted complaints about them. I don't see how it hurts any dog to be walked on a lead at times/in places where they might be bothering other people if they were loose so yes OP, I think your DH was U to criticise you asking for the dog to be put on a lead, the man should have done it without being asked if you and your DC were close by.

[WiddlinDiddlin]

Yep, deadly serious there. Don't want to out myself with the full details but I am a dog behaviour consultant and the dangerous dogs act is something I know a fair bit about.

Make that accusation to the 'wrong' person, ie a police officer, a dog warden, or someone who will pass that on and YES a dog can be seized under the DDA.

The owner can then challenge the identification of the dog as a 'type' animal - they are unlikely to win this even if they have evidence up the wazoo demonstrating that the dog is the product of two perfectly legal breeds (has happened).

Or they accept the decision that the dog is 'type', then the onus is on THEM to prove the dog is not dangerous.

IF the dog is proved 'not dangerous' in a civil court case, then they get the dog back (but, this is after months and months in kennels not 'in a day or two') but the dog is now added to the exempt dog register and has to be held on a lead in public, muzzled in public (including in the owners car and in their front garden), neutered, tattooed down the inside thigh, microchipped and insured with the ONLY insurance company that insure exempt dogs. The dog can't be held in public by a minor, and technically they can be passed on to someone else, that also involves a court case to agree a new keeper, they can't just be rehomed/sold/given away.

So this means a dog who has been deemed NOT dangerous, is now treated as if they might become dangerous at any moment and live their lives imprisoned.

As an indicator of how strict those laws are, there is the famous case of Dempsey, a type dog who was muzzled and on a lead in a public place.

Her muzzle was removed as she was vomiting, police officers saw and her owner was reported, she was seized and ordered to be destroyed - the ONLY reason Dempsey survived was a legal technicality (her owner wasn't aware of the court case date) - and that took a 3 year battle.

Dempsey, a dog who had never hurt anyone, survived due to sheer luck.

The 'Breed Specific Legislation' in the UK and elsewhere is a total joke, it has been proven over and over across the world that it does NOT make the public safer, it does not reduce dog attacks or deaths.


Back to the OP - if your DC do run/squeal etc in fear, the best thing you can do is get some help in dealing with that fear.

Many dog trainers will be more than willing to help with this - a colleague of mine allows people to come to her classes where they can watch through a door, then sit in the room but behind a barrier (starting usually with the tiny puppy classes!) and progress from there, at whatever pace they feel comfortable with.

At all times the parent and phobic child have the ability to get out of the room without passing any dogs and the dogs all stay on lead (or the people pop out of the room during off lead work).

I suggest this because accidents do happen and the very thing your child fears most.. a dog chasing and jumpign at them or even nipping them - is likely to be provoked by the way your child behaves when faced with a dog.

Even very gentle, friendly dogs, can be caused to get giddy and bouncy, to chase and even nip, if a child whizzes about screaming and that situation is something many dog owners find VERY hard to teach their dogs to cope with, because its not something they come across often enough, in a predictable and manageable situation where training can happen.

[MadisonAvenue]

Just to add, we've taken our dog to Bude a few times and although one of the beaches there is dog friendly the signs state that dogs should be on leads between certain times of the day during Summer months, obviously when the beach is at it's busiest.

[MadisonAvenue]

YANBU. I'm a dog owner and always either call my dog to walk with me or put him on his lead when anyone approaches.

Up until we got our dog 4 years ago my youngest son was scared of them, because someone's Boxer ran at him and jumped up him when he was small. Our route to school was through woodland and every day without fail he'd be scared by a dog running up to him, visibly scared, and owners would always say that the dog was friendly and just wanted to play but a child isn't going to think that when a dog is jumping up them.

Someone else mentioned about putting your dog on it's lead when you see another dog on a lead. I always do that. I'll be quite vocal if I have my dog on his and someone allows their dog to bound up to him, making no effort to control it. He's been attacked several times which has made him quite wary of other dogs (not all, for some reason he adores Spaniels). I can tell when he's starting to feel vulnerable and rather than have him react I put him on his lead. Again, I get the "he/she only wants to play" line.
We have a particular problem with a Dalmation which the owner allows to run free while she walks ahead plugged into an iPod. It actually bounded into me and knocked me over, injuring my knee, last Summer. If I see them coming then I'll take another path but it's not always possible.

[christinarossetti]

Of course yanbu to ask. And I love a dog owner who understands that not everyone loves their dog or wants it close to them as much as they do.

[NeverbuytheDailyMail]

Defo NBU. I was at the beach the other day abd there was a very excited and clearly untrained staffie who was running around, terrifying the life out of various toddlers, stealing balls and generally being a pain in the arse. Owner was pretending to not notice that it had shit in various places where kids were walking about in their bare feet. Only when it pissed on the towel of another woman did she make any effort to do anything. Suffice to say we didn't stay long. Sounds like your man was a responsible dog owner.

[TheDropBear]

charlestonchaplin
"Not very bright people" thanks
The dictionary definition of phoic is a strong fear or dislike of something, no mention of irrational. Admittedly after looking it up I now see it may be more of an American usage however I think using the definition it could be argued that you're dog phobic.

I'm not qualified to comment on whether anyone has a phobia of dogs. I do think it's a little more complex than just irrational fear though. I don't have access to the DSM to check but I believe there are several diagnostic criteria and you have to satisfy a certain number of them.

The point I made in my first post still stands though. I don't understand if the choice is between a dog free beach and a beach with dogs why someone who is scared/wary/dislikes/very allergic to(delete as appropriate) dogs would choose the beach with dogs.

[Purplepixiedust]

There are loads of beaches where dogs are not allowed so if I were you OP, I would go to one of those. We seek out beaches where our dogs are allowed to run free. We do discourage them from approaching people and always call them away but loads of dog friendly people encourage them so it can be hard as the dogs think everyone wants to fuss them! They are also very good with other dogs when off lead but tend to bark at them (and therefore I would think be more scary to children) on lead. If you had asked me nicely to put ours on lead I would do so nicely while wondering why you had gone to a dog friendly beach if you don't much like dogs!

[Villagebike3]

I have two dogs. I let them run off lead on a dogs allowed beach. There is only 1 beach that allows dogs. All other beaches ban dogs. Why would you take your children who you know are scared of dogs to a dogs allowed beach?

[Swirlingasong]

Completely agree, Charleston, I DoD wonder if some of the responsible dog owners on here would feel the same about the irrationality of being a bit nervous around dogs if they, as I have, had had a dog bound through a public park, leap up and have its full mouth around their toddler's face only to be huffily told by the owner I shouted at to control his dog that he was ' just playing' and 'loved children'. And by the way, dc was not screaming but standing still next to me holding onto my leg.

That has been the only child in dog's mouth incident but dogs leaping on my children has been a regular occurrence, not to mention the fact that we live near a beautiful area of countryside which is all but impossible for the dc to walk or play in as any trip simply becomes an exercise in avoiding dog poo. Forgive me if I don't think the problem in general lies with children and their parents.

[EveryoneElsie]

YANBU to ask, but I would be worried if my kids ran away in fear from a dog that was just mining its own business.

I wish there were lessons on safety around dogs at school.

[Greyhorses]

A dog can be siezed by law if it looks of type, it does not have to have done anything wrong. All it takes is for someone to report the dog to the authorities as potentially a banned breed and they will come and assess it. If it fits the criteria then a court will decide whether the owner can keep the dog or not regardless of its temprement. It is based on looks alone and the ability of the owner to ensure it is not a danger (and whether it has been reported!)

As for putting the dog on a lead, I wouldn't care one bit if you asked this of me and im sure the man didnt either

[charlestonchaplin]

Lots of utterly stupid comments here. I feel like shaking simple-minded dog owners. Fact: There are many poorly-trained dogs about who do show interest, sometimes aggressive, where it is not wanted. Fact: There is often no way of identifying the poorly-trained dogs until it is too late. Fact: You cannot rely on the owners of poorly-trained dogs to look out for your interests. Many of them are in denial about how badly trained their dogs are.

Instead of acknowledging this we have not very bright people mindlessly talking about people being phobic. Phobia is an irrational fear. People who are anxious or fearful of dogs are usually rationally anxious or fearful. I was minding my own business when a small dog jumped out the boot of a car and ran across the road, barking and growling at me. Was I being phobic when it nipped my legs twice? How it didn't draw blood I will never know. It's owner was utterly ineffectual. Yet my general wariness of dogs off lead even before this incident (because I've got a working brain and know dog bites, though not common, do happen) apparently make me dog-phobic.

[enterYourPassword]

NeedACleverNN

My comment was in response to,

"Unreasonable to decide that his dog is a pit bull terrier type (illegal, and an accusation of such could lead to a totally innocent dog being seized and destroyed if you made such comments in the wrong places!) given you are not a dog breed expert."

The poster was suggesting the OP's comment could lead to a dog's destruction, nothing to do with prefessionals' opinions.

[Noofly]

As a dog owner of a very enthusiastic bouncy dog, no YANBU. I'd happily put my dog on a lead whenever asked. I always put him on lead when an unknown dog is approaching unless we know them because he gets very excited and will bounce on any and all dogs in an attempt to get them to play. Around people, I generally get him to heel past, but it's no bother to me to put him on lead, particularly if someone is afraid of dogs.

I'm assuming you were nice about it. We were on a group walk last week and met the most unpleasant man witha young child. We had 4 dogs and were waiting for another. We saw the man and child approach and then stop, watching us. They were clearly uncomfortable, so we moved all the dogs well off the path so they could easily get by with lots of room to spare. Still they stood there. One of the group gave a shout to say it was OK, they were all on leads and very friendly anyway. Good grief, this set off lots of shouting that you never know what a dog is capable of and we'd be surprised by what they've seen in that park, so on and so on and so on. He was clearly very put out that he had to share the country park with us and I think we all left man and child included feeling a bit upset.