To not really 'forgive' my sister

[OwlRR]

Bit of backgrounds, my sister had a really bad drug problem when she was younger, took over our families lives from me being about 15, lots of drama and heart ache. She stole from the family, put my parents through hell, and childish though it sounds now took all the parental time and attention. She has three kids, none of whom can live with her, and although is off drugs now, does not act totally 'normal' for want of a better word, makes bad boyfriends choices and is exhausting to be around as is very repetitive and self centred. We don't live in the same place, and get on ok when we see each other (very rarely when she visits me with my mum) so I am not NC but I maintain no real independent sisterly relationship as I just don't really like her they much as a person. Saying I haven't forgiven is actually probably quite strong, as I no longer have any particular strong feelings and just live my own life, but I do feel that she negatively affected my life hugely and I just have no desire to have a deeper relationship. She on the other hand always tries to get deep and meaningful, saying she wants a close sister relationship and wants to visit me on her own and etc. She kind of has no social awareness and will outright invite herself to which I act totally non commitall, and she will put my mum in am awkward position asking why I don't want her to stay etc. She'll text me or start going into a monologue when I see her about her she's changed and is doing everything she can to make it up to everyone but to me really it's just words and comes across as self pity. So, am I bring unreasonable and harsh to just want to keep a distant relationship and wish she'd just drop it? Sorry, turned really really long!

[OwlRR]

*sister was a nightmare!

[OwlRR]

It is an awfully sad situation, and I do feel guilty that my poor Mum and her poor kids don't really have the option of stepping back like I have and just have to fully suffer through it all, at the whims really of her behaviour. My mum has never really has a happy period in life due to it all as it's been never ending, even as a young teen before the actual addiction began my duster was a nightmare. I'm not claiming to be an angel, but I managed to do my teen stuff mostly within the bounds of not causing my parents huge worries! Understandable I suppose I was sidelined and just left to get on with things a bit, as my own inclination was to follow a sensible path with education etc which my parents didn't really understand hugely or have a lot of time or energy to worry about.

[summerdreams]

I dont know if this is right, the losing of her own children would be the bit that got me most I think. Your poor mother op I'm not suprised this has effected her mental health. I dont think your being unreasonable at all to want to keep your distnace some things just can not be undone.

[OwlRR]

Thank you for suggestions of what to say, the wording is wonderful! I'm probably not helping myself here though, but I just hate the fact that I feel pushed into a corner to actually have to say something like this! I hate confrontation as it is and I hate the way I feel like I have to come to a point were it's necessary to give this so much angst and head space. We would hardly see each other even if things were different, as she lives pretty far away, and I make the effort to rub along fine when the family get together, why isn't this enough! But I recognise that this is unreasonable as I suppose she also has her right to ask for things to be different, and in a lot of ways it's unfair not to set the boundaries on that so she knows were she stands. Trouble is, I do not think she has the maturity or self awareness to accept a calm message like Falling's, brilliant though it is. And I know when I inevitably do have to see her next she would bring it up incessantly. She also has a habit of really exaggerating what you've asked for if that makes sense. So in the past, as she thinks I don't want her to stay (which she has before with my mum has but don't want her to come on her own) she makes a huge thing about asking if every little thing she does is OK, if she's getting on my nerves, if she's in the way, making too noise etc, so I end up feeling like a real cow and having to overcompensate.

[Falling270]

YANBU at all.

If she's going to keep pestering you you could say something along these lines when she says: "I want a close sisterly relationship".

"I can't force a close sisterly relationship with you after everything that's gone on in the past. You are always telling me what YOU want, I need you to listen to and respect what I want and over time see what happens. The past has long reaching consequences and I can't just forget all that as it affected me very deeply. You will always be my sister and we will always be in contact, but I'm not prepared to pretend to feel something I don't. Please respect that I was hurt in many ways and although you are sorry for that now my feelings haven't just vanished. We have a better chance of a long term positive relationship if you can start trying to understand that and see things from other people's point of view."

You have my sympathy.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Definitely all about her. Tell her you're not at the point where you'd be comfortable with her staying over and may never be but don't say that but that you appreciate her apologies and general good wishes. Something like that anyway.

[AerithEarthling]

Just because you are related to someone doesnt mean they get to be toxic to you

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

No yo're right - it IS all about her. Text her back and say the best way she can make amends is by stopping trying to involve you in her life drama.

[OwlRR]

*influenced by the past

[OwlRR]

Sorry to hear you're going through it too Vole, your sister sounds so manipulative.

1Horatio, I don't know if it's exactly not forgiving as they always sat not forgiving is damaging to yourself, I don't feel burning with bitterness or that I'm being damaged in any way. So I'm that way, I have forgiven, but there has so much hurt in the past that I can't just say it's all OK and it doesn't matter. But nor do I want to have some kind of great in depth going over of it all that ends in a cathartic moment as someone said, I just want to keep her at arms length.

Just had a text off her anyway saying she wants to make up for the past as part of her 12 steps (know nothing about this but has meant to be clean fir years so would she be undergoing the 12 steps now?) and knows she has wronged and hurt me. It keeps her awake at night and she wants to visit if I'll have her. Again, I don't know if I'm just a massive bitch or too influenced by the last but even that seems to be all about her?? To make her feel better and to gain her the invite to come stay? Why can't she just apologise and leave it at that? But she would see these texts as making a massive effort to make amends.

[1horatio]

I meant to say: You can forgive but also want distance.

[1horatio]

Not forgiving isn't the same as wanting distance, is it...?

In my case I felt better forgiving (not exactly the same situation as yours, but it can be compared...). Simply because this way I could start a wholly new chapter....

But I think it's something you have to decide. You have to do what's best for you!

[TheQuestingVole]

Sorry, got mixed up there - it was drugs not alcohol for your S - but the principle may still be the same.

[TheQuestingVole]

My sister is a bit like this, minus the drugs. Long periods of not being in contact, then she parachutes into my life out of the blue demanding to have a deep and meaningful, idealised sisterly relationship. As we don't actually know each other well, that's not really an option. When she doesn't get what she wants she sends me overly dramatic messages suggesting she's cutting me out of her life forever. Then about 6 months later it all starts up again. She's also hyper-sensitive to anything she perceives as criticism and creates great dramas about perceived slights. She is exhausting and boring in exactly the way you describe.

I've concluded it's actually a form of control, because she does it to get a reaction. She thinks that if she threatens people with no contact they'll jump to "prove" how much they love her. However she has no self-awareness whatsoever and seems fundamentally incapable of realising it's precisely the opposite of how she needs to behave if she's going to have a relationship with me.

I've sometimes heard alcoholism described as a form of controlling behaviour due to the effects it has on people around the alcoholic. It may be that your S is still playing out control games through her behaviour despite having sobered up.

I felt a lot calmer about my sister when I realised it was all about control and that I didn't have to engage with it.

[OwlRR]

Sorry for typos, fat fingers on phone!

[OwlRR]

Will definitely check out Blink. Luckily I have a wonderful DH who fully supports me, and tbf my Mum is very understanding of my position as well, although it must be hard for her to see how things have gone.

Oh and to the posters saying she sounds like she has a personality disorder, I think this is very likely. She herself had claimed a diagnosis of bipolar, which could well be true but hard to say with the lying history. She claimed that she was going into a facility for 3 weeks, which would cure the bipolar - this was a few years ago. I'm no expert but it retry sure bipolar can't he cured like that! I spoke to her from the 'facility' and she is is absolutely incoherent, slurring her words . This was meant to be part of the treatment but God only knows what she was actually doing!

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

It was Blink by Malcolm Gladwell that I found helpful on decision making. Also finding people in RL who have similar values as it can feel isolating if you're standing alone against a family narrative of redemption.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Yup. Dramaz. Leave her to it, OP.

[OwlRR]

Thank you so much everyone for the replies, I have read through everyone and will do so again as they are thoughtful and find them all to stroke a chord. I am so sorry to hear from all the other people who have difficult family members. Sorry not to fully address all posts as there are quite a lot now, but just want to say those who said about toxic family members being all let's talk about he and how hard I had it, I'm not like that now, and looking for praise constantly for getting clean gave hit the nail on the head! Also to PP who said she sounds boring, in a nutshell, underneath all the angst, it can come down to that! I don't actually enjoy spending time with her at all. Sometimes my mum tries to cut her off saying she's going on etc but it doesn't really work! An example, and I will probably sound like a bitch here, is that a year or so ago she was really ill and my mum was told it was touch and go. She lives were my mum does, so I went to visit, as wanted to support my mum and did want to see sis under the circumstances. All sister said for the whole time I was visiting was 'can you believe I nearly died' 'what did you think when you heard you ill I was' 'would you have been upset if I had died ' and the best one, ' I bet you wouldn't have been upset '. I get that it was really traumatic, but God it was draining!

Aso totally relate to the poster who's sister arranged burglary and had police round Christmas day, my sister also burgled our house and we had many Christmas days of drama and arguments were I remember just going out to the fields at the back of our house. Also had the police knocking on the door constantly.

[SaucyJack]

YANBU.

She sounds incredibly boring, quite frankly.

Have you tried pointing this out to her? Would she have the insight to grasp that you are sick and tired of her making all conversation about her past and present ishoos?

If you are bothered, and do want to build a positive, equal relationship with her then maybe deliberate try and find set activities to do that would prevent her from keeping the focus on herself. Bit like team building stuff for new colleagues.

But if you don't- or she actively resists any attempt for her not to be the centre of attention- then bother her.

It's very frustrating for all around, but some people don't want to let go of the victim/patient role and behave like "normal" people.

[jacks11]

OP I could have written your post- only for me it is my brother.

It is not selfish to want to keep your distance from someone who has had a very negative impact on your life. As long as you are polite when you do see her, nobody can criticise you.

[AlanPacino]

Is probably carry on doing what you're doing. Keep your distance, be non-committal, limit contact. There's nothing to gain from a big discussion.

[MinistryofRevenge]

It's really OK for you not to forgive her. She doesn't seem to want to make much effort to put things right, does she? So what she's actually asking you to do is to say that your (imo, absolutely reasonable) anger and resentment don't matter because she's not using anymore. But the behaviour hasn't changed.

Sadly, I also had someone in my life like this - alcohol, not drugs - and though he's now in recovery, his DC will have nothing to do with him, because he wants to be constantly congratulated for not drinking, whilst still continuing to behave like a twat. It their eyes, it's how a person acts that matters, not the reason for those acts. I think it may be the same for you, OP; you saw the effect her behavior had on everyone around her, and no doubt ascribed it to the drugs. But she's still doing the same stuff, just without the excuse of being actively using.

I'd agree that she may well have some sort of MH issue, and that's a horrible burden for her to bear - but the way to deal with it is to acknowledge and get treatment and help, not to pretend it's OK to treat people badly because at least she's no longer actively using. You can't help her unless she asks for help with the problem (and you don't have to help her if she does - it's your choice), but that sounds a long way from what she's doing now. She's asking you to engage in the "let's talk about poor me, wasn't it terrible, I'm not like that now" and that in itself is ignoring your needs and wishes. I think that other posters are right that you can protect yourself by setting out, very briefly and in writing, why you don't want to engage and what she might do to help, then leave it in her hands.

[Lemonade1]

You really don't have to like or love your family if they have done nothing but cause you grief, pain or upset all your life.

The 'but we're faaaaamily' shite can be extremely toxic and dysfunctional (as in 'we're family so we should take endless crap from people').

You are allowed to feel like you do, you are allowed not to see her or engage with her, you are allowed to go no contact if that's the best thing for you.

As long as you yourself are not causing drama about this for anyone else or being outright unkind to her or about her, let go of the guilt set yourself free

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Sounds to me that, whether or not your sister has actual MH problems, she is full of the Dramaz. They may be as a result of MH issues, or they may just be who she is - but you clearly can't be doing with the Dramaz, and want to stay well clear of them. I don't blame you for this at all, I'd be the same.

Whether or not your sister is ever truly clean of the drugs or not, I doubt she'll ever be clear of having Dramaz in her life - and I think that's one of the things that you are feeling instinctively, which is why you don't want to get sucked in again.

It's ok to not have a relationship with family members, you know, even if it is hurtful to others in the family - it's not ideal but it's ok. You have to do what is right for you, first and foremost. As it is, you are still having a relationship with her, but one that you can handle - that's fine. Let her carry on her own way, and you carry on with the way you're dealing with her.